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| Everyone is Lawyering Up! |
The Knox Street family living rent free, in a City owned home, rehabilitated with grant money, and the purchase was covered by grant money came to head during a tight mayoral race which exacerbated the hype. Many were jumping to conclusions and there was blood in the water. Mr. Sciorra admitted in a Journal Article when the Knox Street property broke; that he could not read his emails and appeared to have little oversight of his department heads...this appeared to everyone that he could not do his job.
The loss of millions of dollars in grant funds for the Neighborhood Stabilization Program is the first kick the City will take. It is believed these monies were lost because of the disastrous collapse of our grant program...how it was managed, and the turmoil between City Council, the City Manager, and City Planner that surrounded the Knox Street mess.
It is indicated that these grants were administered properly, which is hard to believe considering how the City earned income from self-administration of grant money. Ethically this does not seem right that 2 families and the City are the only winners with over $200,000.00 in grant money. The distribution does not seem very equitable.
Journal Files Claim
Journal No Funds
33 comments:
Several homes were rehabbed, in fact. Uncle Art was too pigheaded to let that be part of the Tory.
There may have been several homes but 2 homes received over $200K. Why is the City involved in purchasing homes, paying the taxes with grant money? Nice to compete with the private sector, they should be sold to cover the taxes and put them back on the tax roles.
They were offered at tax sale and no one bought them. By using the granyts to rehab them, the properties are improving the neighborhood and coming back on the tax roles at a higher value. And 200k wasn't spent on 2 properties, most of the money was spent demolishing 6 houses, several of which had asbestos
So Woods used a grant that was suppose to help poor people to help poor people and it didn't cost the City a dime. How Art let that turn into a PR nightmare is mind-boggling. Way to go CEO!
Thanks, 3:15. Even worse, 3:24, Art said that Justin was "moving" grant money...calling into question the administration of a whole separate program. If the CC wasn't full of boneheaded like Skamp and Nicky, they would know how grants work, and that "moving" money is a nonsensical accusation. Now we won't have to worry about it. Art's aggressive stupidity cost us new grant monies while places like Fine and Colton, and Potsdam and Canton keep bringing them in.
Even if Art had been in the right, the way he blew our chances at 2012 money make him unfit to lead.
horseheads and cassopolis dejavu
I agree with Poly. The city competes in too many areas in this day and age.
I hope they learned a lesson when you mix unethical realitors with over ambitious city employees led by a guy who kind of lays back and trusts that things get done is a lethal mixture... Top that off with unethical contractors and you have a total disaster for the taxpayers.
The one thing I want is whatever they decide on the city manager Cosmo and anybody else involved in this fiasco gets the same treatment.
Skamp and Nick are disgusting. Nice to know that we have a councilor remaining in office whose first allegiance is not to the City but to slimy Art Sciorra.
Nelson and Morley haven't helped matters either. One of them should have quietly told Art, "you're not really equal to this job. Let's find a mediator and resolve this civilly." In that scenario, all parties win: Art gets a token package that allows him to glide into retirement, while the City is free of his poor leadership without having to engage costly counsel. city at least should have taken free advice from NYS Open Governance, which exists for precisely these matters.
Sciorra needs to be gone ASAP. Knox St. aside, his handling of the fallout has been disastrous. It will take us a while to recover from this black eye. A beautiful accompanying present would be a recall of Nelson to go with.
Lets go over this again..
Council found out in May that Woods needs to be fired.. Gave their blessing.. Nelson called Sciorra and asked him to hold off to benifit his political agenda.
Journal got the story... Looks bad. Still no noise though. Council askes their attorney to do a report on the matter then come back to them Passed seven to zero..
Silver starts his investigation and advises council not to talk about this or reach any conclusion before the report was done.
Election time nears... Nelson who has been out of touch with the people starts to hear the facts. Nelson will not win because of Art.
Nelson goes on reocrd wanting Art gone along with Morley.. Vaugh and Skamp want to wait for report to come.. Nelson holds special meeting and keeps the heat on making accusations.. Nelson has Woods return to tell his side of what happened.. Nelson allowed crowds to be unruley and out of order when others talked...
Nelson elected.. Now he sit quietly and lets Morley lead the charge.. Still no action
Art files notice .. Now council finds out they need attorney and will apy for arts...
STILL NO ACTION..
Firing Art Sciorra would have cost in the area of fifty thousand.. Lets keep the tabs updated for now for the attornies costs in the matter..
Now firing Art Sciorra will cost about two hundred plus thousand and some change.. STILL NO ACTION
NOW ALL OF THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR NELSON WILL GET WHAT THEY DESERVE.. The only problem is the other half of the city taxpayers will have to pay also..
If my taxes or services are disrupted by this I feel Mr Morley and Mr Nelson deserve to be outsted..
I PERSONALY FEEL RECALL MAY BE NEEDED ON THE OFFICALS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS DEBACLE. THE LAST CITY SCIORRA REPRESENTED DID THINGS BADLY THUS SCIORRA LEFT BUT THE TAXPAYERS HAD ENOUGH SENSE TO RECALL THEIR ELECTED OFFICALS FOR THEIR PART IN THE PROBLEMS THEY HAD.
7:39 Your story is good but incomplete. Art told Council Justin should go because grants were being mismanaged and Justin was moving money improperly. State report contradicts those claims.
Also should mention that Bill's political agenda is irrelevant to Art. He is very proud of the fact that he is CEO. (Of course he won't take responsibility when things go wrong. And he has no problem making non-stories like Knox Street bigger than they are.)
Morley and Nelson need to step down. They have completely mis-managed this situation for selfish reasons. If they do not step down then a recall of the election is the right thing to do. The price tag for the laywers will be in the hundreds of thousands but the award for defamation and libel will be in the $ millions. All for an election, do you think these two really care about the people of Ogdensburg? They need to go before they bankrupt our city!!!!
9:06 Agree that Nelson should be gone. But Art's not going to win "millions" or anything close. He's just trying to extort a settlement from the city he's holding hostage.
Everyone involved has done a horrible job of managing this situation. Art is unfit to serve, let alone lead. Bill should be sent back home to Lisbon.
9:46 Let me assure you that Art will win in the $ millions. Nelson went beyond the local newspapers and also tryed to defamate Art through his professional organization where he holds certifications. He has 10 years left in the work force, that's worth $ 1 million, It usually gets doubled for pain and suffering. It's all on tape and he will win. I have seen lesser cases pay big time. That's what happens when you have a janitor running the city.
The claim Art submitted is very chintzy. More inflammatory stuff passes without comment in most civilized cities.
I have checked with a lawyer in Syracuse reguarding Art Sciorra's notice of claim. That is all it is a notice of claim. He has no basis for his legal action. The Mayor and City Council are buying into a legal issued that has no standing. The City Council is protected by the open meeting law. Take a look at it folks. If you buy into this Art Sciorra pipe dream you are just as dumb and the current city council members.
By the way Mayor Nelson was a cook at donut king before going to HMC. Morley was just a laborer at NM before he faked his disability.
So before you get all upset please do your research. I say do not renew Sciorra's contact and send him on his way.
10:28. Correct up until the last sentence. His contract is open-ended.
10:28 I wish you were right, but you are not. The lawyer in Syracuse is also wrong, believe me I know! All we can hope for now is that somehow Nelson and Morley can get down on their knees and beg Art to back off, he has an open and shut case. Ask anyone who understands labor law, this is a nightmare for Ogdensburg. Art needs to go and he knows that, a severence package would have been a great deal. We are screwed, get used to it!!!!
1028.. Let me see.. You contacted an attorney in Syracuse.. This is anonymous. I would like some information.. he then talked to you and gave you the advise which you are sharing with us now.
No one is protected from liability and defamation. Only the court can decide that.. Thats why various attorneys give various answers but only a fool would give that advise.. Whats his/her nam so I wont mistakingly hire them some day.
I say this.. For now I,ll sit and wait for my council to act. I,ll listen to whats being said but I have made up my mind on one thing. If the city looses this suite I will attmept to get people interested in the recall move many are talking about..
My conclusions so far is the manager is inept. He was surrounded by liars and insubordinate people including Woods and Cosmo.. Manager should go but council including mayor should shut up and do their job..
Nelsons political agenda dosnt include Ogdensburg.. The Democrats have no one to run against Ritchie so Addie Russell is a possible name being tossed around. Nelson is going to jump at the chance to run for the 118th.. NYSCOM has a practice of appointing long term mayors regardless of competance to lead themas a figure head so Nelson gets to bask in this glory for one year...
Ever wonder what happened to his appointment to the Bridge and Port.. Governor made a decision that he wasnt fit to serve and appointed someone else...Most governors have stuck with the same people over time.
Labor law does not include provisions for wild lawsuits by executives criticized by councilors in open and public meetings.
Sounds like some of Art's lackeys are pushing this fantasy that he's in line to receive millions.
Civil laws will entertain these complaints if they go forward ...
This city administration has set precedence for executive session meetings and they broke them in this case.. Morleys wild raves on these blogs also didnt help him. Jack McGrath and his wife didnt like what he was saying about them so Morley retracted some of the statement. Nelson and Morley went against the advise of the city attorney when they indulged in these actions..
Very strange legal analysis from some quarters. Maybe Art has deputized his remaining supporters? The reality is that defamation law is relatively unfriendly to plaintiffs in the US. Assertion that statements were made as opinion rather than fact is often an affirmative defense against these charges.
The dual purposes of this Notice of Claim are 1) an attempted C&D to get Bill and Mike to stop saying things and delay termination proceedings and 2) a weaselly way to extract a settlement (both parties should have been grown up enough to embrace the far more palatable option of arbitration). Art's lawyers will have a hell of a time proving that Bill and Mike knew, or should have known, that what they were saying was false (especially since most of what they said was regurgitation of emails and documents provided by Woods). That's the standard. Will a court find that Morley "in the exercise of reasonable care" "should have known" that his statements were false? Not unless Art is the presiding judge, I'd guess.
All of this of course ignores the reality that Art was caught on tape telling Morley he'd lied to him. And that Art bungled his way through this job for years. And that Art created the major black eye for the City (even if Bill and Morley did their part to make it worse).
The modem defamation explosion is clearly evident in the workplace;
defamation suits against employers by former and current employees are
increasing at a significant rate.7 7 Traditionally, such suits involve employ-
ees who have been discharged or employees who have left the organization
under difficult circumstances.78 However, in light of the "workplace
revolution,, 79 and in light of the increased interest in defamation claims, "employers increasingly are facing liability for defamation arising in a vari-
ety of workplace contexts.",80
To create liability for defamation, the following elements must be proven: (1) a false and defamatory statement concerning the plaintiff; (2) an unprivileged publication to a third party; (3) fault amounting at least to negligence on the part of the publisher; and (4) either actionability of the statement irrespective of special harm or the existence of special harm caused by the publication.147 Essentially, the elements for a claim include a false and defamatory statement that is communicated by speech, conduct or in writing to a third person.
He has a case!
He's a public figure and will need to prove malice AND falsity with "convincing clarity." The councilors will respond that they looked at documents. This is not a case. But it may be a costly and damaging settlement.
To create liability for defamation, the following elements must be proven: (1) a false and defamatory statement concerning the plaintiff; (2) an unprivileged publication to a third party; (3) fault amounting at least to negligence on the part of the publisher; and (4) either actionability of the statement irrespective of special harm or the existence of special harm caused by the publication.147 Essentially, the elements for a claim include a false and defamatory statement that is communicated by speech, conduct or in writing to a third person.
The report published by Silver exonerated the City Manager. The Journal also was and still is on a mission to fire him. Nelson is in bed with the Journal and Chuck Kelly. There is a right way to get rid of Art and a wrong way. The slanderous approach is wrong. Get rid of him but do you need to destroy his career? The part that I can't get by is how quickly Nelson turned on Art when he found the election was at stake. Would you go into battle with him. He is a corrupt Mayor and needs to go
Of course Bill is a creep.
The report didn't "exonerate" Art, really. He let a problem fester for 30 months, didn't deal with a personnel matter expeditiously and privately (insubordination for that long would be a serious, serious problem), and then when the paper got wind of it, he managed to make us look so bad that we're out of the running for new grant monies.
It was a very tepid and cautious report. Of course Art didn't behave criminally. But the basis for our performance evaluation should be competence. He's severely lacking in that regard.
The legal criteria you state above are also supplemented by a burden of proof on plaintiff to convincingly prove INTENTIONAL malice and falsehood. Given that Bill and Mike can use Woods's documents and testimony as a shield, it would be a very, very, very tough sell.
You may be right but at the end of the day it sucks. The 28% of the population who are paying taxes and those tax payers whose incomes are at or below the poverty level are the victims. Is there no recourse here?
209 Yes there is recourse.. Lets wait and see where this goes. If the city pays out more money we can start by meeting as a group. People from this blog who want to start a recall on any councilor we find to fault with this... My assumption is the people from the town Sciorra last did this got together, got organized, got support then acted.. I think four of their councilors including the mayor were recalled and new people elected.
Great idea, I'm in.
It is just sad that with all the publicity regarding this past election, and all the people yelling from the rooftops that something did not seem right about this whole situation, and that it was time for change in the way this city does business, the people woke up on election day, went into their respective polling place and checked the box marked "More of the Same". I am not surprised to see that now that the election is over, certain figures at city hall would like this whole thing pushed back under the rug from which it came. Now that the heat is off for election, the need to run put on a Broadway production down at city hall is over, and they can get back to doing business as usual. Let this be a lesson to people, if you want change, and you want things to be different here, you need to elect different leaders, keep putting like minded individuals in office and you will keep getting the same results.
Sorry to rain your parade but New York State does not currently have a recall process for elected officials.
still smh that robbins wrote that report cleared art!!! how about the part where the state praised woods' programs and we got no grant money? sure doesn't sound like he was mis-managing grants and moving money improperly...but art had no problem letting the issue explode in the press!!! saddest thing about art is that hes spent months trying to protect himself and managed to make everyone look bad: city, woods, and...himself!!!
he must be happy that his main opponents are corrupt morons like the mayor!!!
I must say that I am distressed by Mr. Silver's role in perpetuating this. I know he is a respected attorney but I do not think he served the public interest too well here.
1) knew his report would be used for personnel matters from which he'd have to recuse himself.
2) did not refer city to free legal services offered by state for this type of matter.
3) does not appear to have provided fair, balanced discussion of pros, cons, and rationale for lease and eviction options. As an atty., this would have been a real service.
4) did not substantively address all relevant allegations made by woods.
5) urged against public disclosure even though public records are public property.
You have to read very very selectively to conclude that this report clears Art in any meaningful way. Worse, it accomplishes the task of costing money and saying nothing. All while our elected and appointed clowns continue to compete to see who can screw the city the hardest.
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