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| Council Review City Attorney's Report |
The report is completed and each member of council had a chance to read the report prepared by City Attorney Silver. Mr. Nelson has submitted a resolution for Tuesday's special meeting calling for the suspension and removal of City Manager, Arthur J. Sciorra.
Nelson and Morley read the report and came to the same conclusion, calling for the dismissal of the City Manager. Skamperle and Vaugh think the report absolves the City Manager. It is hard to believe our elected officials could read the same report and be so far apart.
City Manager, Sciorra wants to release the report to the public. The report is about him, so let's see it!
Journal:Article
82 comments:
Before the council makes any conclusion, they should go ahead and make the report public, come back after the election, and then make a decision on Sciorra's status.
Either that or stop pretending that this move against Uncle Art has anything to do with the report or Knox Street and admit that it has everything to do with getting Bill Nelson re-elected. Their choice.
But we have our chance to vote Bill out on the 7th. How much more of Uncle Art can we take?
5:46
I think the political problems on the council outweigh the functional/personnel problems at city hall. Art, despite being unethical and rude, has done a pretty good job running the city - people are happy with the services, taxes are lower than they were before he got here, and the budget is streamlined. The real cancer on our city will be sitting at that desk tonight.
Absolutley.. Nelson is the problem with this city not any part of a solution.. Voters and taxpayers deserve to read the report.. This is being used as a grandstand for Nelson to the the mayors association leader this year not about Ogdensburg at all..
Its so obvious and so political it stinks....
Yes, people like Art so much that the Democratic candidates all said that on the basis of door-to-door canvassing, they would fire Art.
The simple fact is that even if the report exonerates Art on the 819 Knox question, it must directly inculpate Woods. If Woods is not shown to have committed any misdeed, then people should be concerned with Art's managerial capabilities:
1) Blowing up a non-issue, drawing scrutiny to City grant programs, and publicly mistreating an employee
2) Clearly relying on external influences to guide personnel decisions despite self-proclaimed status as CEO
And honestly, the guy has put his foot in his mouth with so many boneheaded statements recently. Whether or not he knew about a poor family living on Knox Street, is this really the moron you want representing the city as its CEO?
People are so happy with the services and quality of life in our city that 1200 of them left in the past decade. And no, that's not all prisoners!
Now that this sad saga will continue for at least another few weeks, I need to say that I don't understand the logic Jack's supporters are pushing. I am NOT supporting Bill. I think he should go, too.
But if Bill wants to fire Art for political reasons, it must be a popular idea. Why should the City suffer under an arrogant, self-serving manager any longer than necessary? Are people not intelligent enough to support firing Art and then making an independent decision about getting rid of Bill?
And as for the people talking about Art's great record, the budget process is easier when you have substantial grant monies at your disposal. I wonder how good Uncle Art's touch will be now that insubordinate, reckless, and incompetent Mr. Woods is gone. Because I don't believe for a second that Uncle Art brought in one penny of grant revenue. Whether people like him or not, the grant monies started pouring in when Mr. Woods was here. Unless we really think that Mr. Cheese Plant was running the budgetary show on his own. I guess we'll never know...since he only sees fit to mention his employees when he wants to deflect blame onto them (Mr. Cosmo).
I think Jack McGrath said very clearly in the paper this week that he believes that Art should be let go, but that it should be done professionally and with a transition plan. It should not be a shotgun approach to garner votes. Mr. Nelson's attempts to get this wrapped up before the election is putting the city in a very vulnable position legally. Next Tuesday we will have our opportunity to send Nelson packing and allow the new regime to deal with Art in a way that assures a minimal financial impact on the taxpayers.
What a fine mess this is! The mayor lacks the political strength to get rid of somebody who has publicly admitted to lying to the city council. Ridiculous! Who is really running this city? Is there anyone trustworthy left in city hall?
Forget political strength ...I was thinking more does anyone have any brains. Or is Mr. Nelson so blinded by ambition he can't see past his own seat, well unless you count Albany, he sure can see Albany. I have attempted to write this three times...Mr. Nelson you are setting this city up for a lawsuit. You ve done all you can to attempt to retain your seat, it would be nice to have some resemblance of a budget when your done campaigning at our expense.
Yet another debacle which glaringly and in the public eye documents for ALL to see and KNOW : Ogdensburg has NO leadership
Come Next tuesday we can begin to CHANGE that. BE wise when you vote .
DO you and your family want MORE of this and other long standing UNRESOLVED problems or a fresh start for OUR city?
Mr. Morley I have alsways heard good things about you. How can you let Mayor Nelsons political ambitions guide you? This entire situation should have been handled in house with the acceptance that mistakes were made and they should have been dealt with accordingly. Now we are hiring outside council? Why not just pay the damn severance and be done with it. I am sure there is a provision in his contract that gives us an out at renewal time just because we don't like him. How much money have we spent on attorney fees already? What is the budget for a new investigation? How much of the city's money will you commit us to on behalf of Bill Nelson's election? Please give me some justification for your position, because I just don't get it.
To Anon 11:16,
You are assuming things that are not true. I am not doing things for anyone's political ambitions. What I do is because I think that is the right thing to do. If we could have done it in-house,as you say, we would have. The trouble lies in the fact that the City Manager will not accept any responsibility for anything. He will not admit to any mistakes, blaming several different people for the same thing. We are forced by him to do it this way. If he would have been more open, it may have been a less serious problem. he instead chose to try to hide things from us until it was too late for any other approach. I do not want to hire outside counsel to assist us, but our own attorney backed out last night. My feeling is he should have recused himself at the beginning, but that is the past. We have to deal with the here and now. I want to proceed with what we were doing, and will work to that end.
Again I will ask you Mr. Morley, how much has this investigation cost to date and what is the budget for bringing in outside council? Why cant we just deal with itby paying his severance and sending him on his way?
I have no idea on the up to date costs of the investigation. We have not received a bill from the attorney, but I do know that he has a max yearly pay level that he can charge us. To date it has not been reached. So we are still within our yearly budget for an atty. I will say that is to the best of my knowledge. I have not heard otherwise from either Phil or Art.
To Anon 1;24,
I understand your frustration. I can see why you would want to pay him off just to be done with it. I, for one, and I only speak for me, cannot reward a man for doing a lousy job. He has failed to do the job properly, and I cannot vote to give him a $50,000 bonus for doing it.
Mike Morley
Why hasnt the report been made public.. Let me see you are one, Vaugh is two, Skamp is three Powers four and Cilley five.. Five to one to release it to the public.. Why hasnt it been relesased....
With a five toone majority I only have one question.. What has Bill Nelson got on the others that they wont go against his wishes..
It has become very obvious that the report does not find the cause you wanted and it appears he may be doing his job as asked to by the mayor... What do you think Mike?
So instead you open yourself up to a wrongful termination suit, and a deflamation of character suit. We will never get a way from paying his severance. Add on top of that attorneys fees and now outside attorneys fees. Where is the business sense or simple logic in any of that. No one is considering the cost yet, you are using the taxpapyers money. The council entered into a contract on behalf of the city with the city manager and your telling me you gave yourselves no out in case you weren't pleased with his job? Has council even discussed cutting your losses? Have you discussed terminating his contract versus renewal? I have asked you several times if he gets his severance if you choose not to renew. That question is still unanswered.
It also came out in the meeting last night that the documents may have been altered and citizens are asking for an investigation. Any comments on that Mr. morley
Read the Charter; if the manager is removed for cause, he has no further legal recourse. What is the attorney afraid of? He works for the city, not the city manager. Again, read the charter: the city manager does NOT have the power to remove the city attorney. Andy Silver should be able to advise the council any way he likes.
Obviously the City Attorney does not believe that their is cause and knows that the path that Nelson is on is setting us up for a lawsuit. You can't make up cause or alter documents to make it look like thier is cause. Scorria needs to go because no one likes him, no one has confidence in him, unfortunately that is not cause, according to the "Charter".
I think it should be released. There is no vindication for Art. Only make believe comments that have no bearing. The Atty does not want to be investigator and judge and jury. I understand his point, but wish hewould have expressed it a month ago. I would have another attorney in place already. I do not see any problem with continueine on this course. It is outlined in the Charter step by step. We will proceed to the end. And win, even without Dan and Nick. And Dan has been asked for his proof of forged Documents, but has yet to provide them. Typical Dan.Big mouth little action to back it.
Mike you avoided the answer I asked.. With a five to one majority why hasnt the report been made public..
You are obviously letting Nelson run you...
The report was final and the attorney is done.. You dont like whats in the report so you wont release it.. Why say release it then dont... Why go into executive session on things as important as this
Sorry...... But you are politicing and kissing Nelsons Butt
I told you, The report backs up everything I said with more examples than I had before. Anyone who says otherwise, is lying. I can't release the report by myself, and Nelson can't hold it by himself. It will be released in time, and I will use it against Art. He is wrong if he thinks it helps him.I saw no reason to hold it except to protect the people who signed contracts.
Its being held in order to make the political career of Nelson alive.
I think the report has nothing they can use as Cause to fire Sciorra.. So fire him without cause just because the people want it......OR DO THEY.. Possibly its just a few hotheads that want him fired and a couple of politicans who want to win...
Its gone on for to long.. Time to elect a mayor who an lead by example and not cause this type of public embarassment to our city..
Your key words were "you think". I know. No matter what you hear otherwise, this document is only one piece of our investigation. We had proof before, the document conforms the previous facts ,and Art admitted lying. If you need anymore, I will provide it when I can.
Mike Morley your investigation sucks. Silver dosnt work for nothing and neither will a new attorney. Nelsons constant calling meaningless meetings has to stop. Sanity must step in at some level. Someone just reminded me about his appointment to head the mayors assc. If he wins he is it, and you will be the mayor of Ogdenssburg most of the meetings... Now its coming into focus a litle
to Anonymous 9:51;
What makes you think I will be Deputy Mayor next year? What makes you think I want it? Do you ever see my picyure in the paper at oprnings or ground breakings? No you don't do you? I don't like doing those things. You sound like Skamp and his great conspiracy. Dick Lockwood was head of the mayor's association. Why not Bill? Is it jealousy? For my own self, I would much rather have Bill as Mayor, than have Jack who has not one idea of what to do unless Lockwood tells him every step. Why does he pretend to live behind me when he really lives down on the river? Talk about fantasies.
This investigation is a joke - everyone is bringing their own biases into it and reading what they want out of it. We could have paid that fat reporter from the paper to do the same thing, gotten results twice and fast and put this all behind us.
Now it has become a political circus orchestrated for the mayor's political gain. Whatever we could have gained as a city from it has been destroyed just so Bill Nelson could get re-elected.
Thanks for wasting our tax dollars, guys.
M. Dolengy thinks this was all ginned up by the mayor. Yes, the mayor is trying to take advantage of it.
But this whole situation would have been resolved if Art hadn't made a personnel matter public and messy. And if we're going to blame Bill, it's only fair to remember that Art had plenty of opportunities to change course. Instead, he got deeper and deeper into the game of saying contradictory, sometimes nonsensical things. And when it wasn't enough merely to blame Woods, he added Cosmo and an attorney who wasn't even there at the time onto the fire.
To Anon 11:30:
How do you know it isn't being orchestrated by Skamperle for Jack McGrath's gain? Skamp is the vice chair of the Democratic committee.
And what could you possibly gain from the embarressment of having an incompetent City Manager?
Yes, the Skamp statements are strange. Art first told the paper he knew nothing about 819 Knox. And he certainly hadn't informed Council about the situation during the 2 years he was aware of it.
Skamp says that Art did his job because he told Woods to evict the tenants in January 2010. Leaving aside that Woods lacked that authority, it clearly didn't happen and Art didn't mention it or say that Woods was "insubordinate" then. Art apparently didn't care after that point because the housing programs continued and similar decisions continued to be made, apparently.
Woods stated his reasons for not wanting to evict tenants clearly at the Council meeting. If Art had such a problem with those reasons in January 2010 one would think he would have done a little before about it before August 2011, when he told Chris Robbins that he was totally ignorant of the situation. At least it would make sense to inform Council and seek their advice on this controversial matter.
Skamp also seems unconcerned that the Main Street program was contracted out via the Growth Fund to avoid Council oversight. None of Art's defenders seems too willing to take on that allegation.
On Tuesday night, Dan Skamperle accused Justin Woods of forging documents, e-mails. Dan was asked to produce the evidence. This is now Thursday. I have yet to see the alleged forgeries, or even receive acknowledgement from Skamperle that he saw my e-mail requesting the documents. Maybe not reading e-mails is no big thing to Skamp and Art, but to those of us who have to live in the real world, it is the best form of communication because there is a date and time stamped when it was sent, and an acknowledgement that it got to the e-mail address. So Skamp, I sent you a request, Storm sent you a request, are you going to show us, or are you a bullshitter who may have opened the City up to lawsuit.
Mr. Morley..
The city opened itself up to a lawsuit the minute Sciorra came to town.. A little time and effort on the council part then would have saved us mega trouble now.
In a nutshell.. Sciorra must go but common sense must prevail in doing it.
Nelson has been a lazy poor leader in the last two terms only in this for his future. His eye is on ALbany and you more than anyone know that.. His protecting this managter led to the monster we now must deal with .
What I see from this report vindicates his job performance however his ethics should be questioned and as you say cause to terminate...
Nelsons debacle has opened us for a severe lawsuit.. Nelsons use of Gebo was questionalb3e then and his appointment of Gebo to city court is ultimently what Nelson represents... Woods hsould have been fired and that I blame on Sciorrra but obviously influenced by Nelson.. Sciorra hiring of Nelsons kid again influened by Nelson and the house sale to his sonin law while legal sure brings up questions about ethics again obviously influenced by Nelson..
Yesterd ay you were asked why that report has not been made public.. Five of the six on the council indicated they support making it public.. Nelson is the only nay vote.. Why hasnt a motion been made and a resolution made to air the report... Again Nelsons influenece... You all look foolish and all look like your hiding something and the public is loosing faith fast in even you.. You seem to want to make it look like McGrath isnt a resident even though in fact Nelson isnt.. Why?
Mr. Dolengy,
If it vindicates his job performance, why didn't he inform Council? Why did he call on Woods to evict in January 2010 and then lose interest? If he told Woods to evict, he knew about the situation all along and made no move to enlighten Council. Why did he tell the Journal he knew nothing about the matter until he decided that he did know enough to blame Woods, Cosmo, Wears, and anyone else necessary?
The best Art can do is deputize Skamp to tell us that Woods forged emails. And have Vaugh robo-call us!
To M. Dolengy;
Geez, I don't know where to start with your letter.Let's see. I'll start at the end and work my way up. Jack claims to live at 911 Lake St., a residence which borders my property. His ex-wife has lived there for a number of years. Jack has not. I know this for a fact. Jack may have registered the address as his own, but the fact remains he does not live there. I know who has lived there in that house for as long as I can remember because I have lived here, or my parents have lived here for almost 70 years. I can name you the owners. Enough said on that.
Nelson cannot hold that report by himself. We need to vote to release it.
I don't know how you know what is in this report,but there is no vindication for Art. The truth is it(the report) just continues to support what has been reported. Art was told at least 6 times by Phil that a lease was needed. Art kept trying to delegate that job to other people Justin, Mike Gebo, Phil), but by Charter only Art can negotiate A lease. It is his job, and his alone. Eviction orders must be signed by Art. If you can find any eviction orders signed by Art for the residents at 819 Knox St., please bring them to me. I will make them public. I want the truth in this. My feeling is that we were deceived intentionally by two people for two different reasons. Justin deceived us because he wanted these people to remain living at 819 Knox; Art deceived us because he allowed this to get out of control without informing us along the way. He knew the crap was about to hit the fan when he told the Journal in August that he knew nothing about 819 knox St. He signed a sales agreement on April 29th for the property, told us there was no sales agreement in executive session on June 27th, denied knowing anthing about it at the Council meeting in July, saying he would have to look into it and get back to us, and tell the paper in August that he has not read 600,000 e-mails. Where is commmon sense in all this opposition by two Councilors? You're asking the wrong person about common sense. I can back up everything i have said. And I have a whole lot more.
A mayoral candidate does not need permanent residence in O'Burg. There is a time requirement, but not immediately. (See charter).
Nelson has not lived in O'burg his entire tenure.(see Lisbon and Heuvelton)
This is really a non-issue because of offsetting penalties.(see NFL)
Mike, I like you. You are bigger than this. You need to stop supporting Bill, you have been the only voice of reason through this whole ordeal and you are letting yourself become a pawn in a stupid political game.
I have always thought throughout the years that you have been the one on the council for us. Please, be the adult here, and call both sides out on their childish stupid political games. Be the independent, strong voice that we've always wanted you to be.
Your lost Mr. Morley, lost in dislike for art Sciorra. Your blinded by Mr. Nelsons ambition and lies..
You just described; what I feel vindicates Sciorra from everything but lying.. If I,m the CEO with the power this guy has, and I,m given instructions to do something, I do it . I may question it but I do it.. So you state Cosmo didnt follow instructions, Gebo ignored his request and woods didnt follow orders.. Wheres Cosmos walking papers. I assume you will start aciton to remove Gebo from the city judgeship..Sciorra lied to you and for that he needs to go but not for not doing his job.. Nelson lied to you more than once but no outcry.. Like someone just wrote address is a moot point right now but his issue has to be put to rest...
How do yoou justify Cosmos acitons or Gebos.. If they did right they would have had to been told by you guys not to follow his instructions.. Anywhere else would fire someone immediately for insubordination.. I understand your feeling about the way Sciorra handled the Rose affair but Nelson supported his acitons.. Other situations were handled in the same manner and Nelson supported him.. Nelson supported him when this broke and held exectuive session against State ethics supporting him.. Only after Nelson realized he is looing this election did he turn the wolves loose on the manager... Woods was the center of distain until Nelson asked him to appear and lie like the manager said to applause.. How can anyone trust Justin Woods on anything?
To M. Dolengy;
You misunderstand if you think I said Phil did anything wrong. Phil did everything by the book. Art cannot delegate duties that only Art can do. And ultimately, he is in charge and should have made sure the job was done. By Charter only Art can negotiate leases. it was his job, and his alone.
I would like to call your attention to an article in the Times. I have attached a link to it. I feel that this whole situation has been one huge embarrassment for our city. I have to say that articles like this make me feel very embarrassed for our city.
http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20111103/BLOGS13/111109945/-1/blogs13
Mr Morley.
You guys have preached for years the city manager runs the city and council in no form can intervene.. If lSciorra delegated authority to do someting it should have been done .. Possibly questioned but done.. Cosmo refused a direct order and your saying its OK..
Dosnt seem right... If the orders were illegal and he refused possibly but to simply ignore a written directive was irresponsible and wrong.. Cosmo should have done what he was told and come to the council..
But lately I,m getting to know why no city employees trust any of you guys..
Just pay the guy without cause and get it done.. Your wrong and your representing Nelson who has lied throughout this entire affair. THIS IS THE WAY BILL NELSON WANTED THE CITY RUN. THIS IS WHY ARTHUR SCIORRA DID THE THINGS THAT WERE DONE. This is the same guy doing the same things that Nelson condoned.. Whats different? An election he is behind in....
I hope the rest of the city staff listen to their supervisors...
Wrong, Mr. Dolengy. Phil repeatedly told Art that a lease was needed, that a policy was needed for disposition of City property. Art chose to ignore this advice, possibly because he never imagined council or chris robbins would find out about 819 Knox.
Art was only briefly interested in a lease several months after first finding out about 819 Knox. Just as quickly, he stopped worrying about it. Never mentioned it to Council, never told anyone of his concerns, continued soliciting housing monies and working with the same firms. From the way he carried on with Mr. Woods, you'd never have guessed last year that he considered him to be "insubordinate." The two were practically inseparable.
This came up. Art thought it was a convenient reason to fire Woods. Art isn't smart enough to pre-plan his lies. Art could have just fired the guy quietly and professionally.
Instead we're treated to an embarrassing procession of blame, incomprehensible statements (600,000 emails), and lies when silence would suffice. If I'd been the one to gift Ogdensburg with such wonderful ideas as the Kosher cheese plant or the mythical Diamond development, I'd think I'd at least have learned to keep my mouth shut until my mind caught up.
It is clear that Bill Nelson is a lying douche and a fat stuffed suit who has played us all for fools since the journal broke the story a few months ago. If Mike Morley can't stop riding on his coattails, than he too will lose the support and trust of the citizens of Ogdensburg.
Mike Morley has lost the trust of Ogdensburg. Mike Morley needs to go with ALL of council. Mike says, he is not politically involved, yet he asked Art to step down so that Nelson can regain the trust of the electorates. Mike Morley is as big of a clown as the rest of city council. Mike, did you or did you not ask Art to step down in order to help Nelson's re-election bid? Who's lying now, Mike? FOIL...remember I have the truth and you will be made accountable...
Mike Morley is one of many reasons Ogdensburg looks foolish. As Mike says, I don't care what the investigation says, I have my own evidence. Really Mike? You have your own agenda...Get Bill Re-Elected no matter what...??? Time to change and purge the city council. Mike Morley is the next fool to go.
Anonymous 11:05 - I take it you are Chris Robbins. Isn't it a little unethical for you to be posting on a blog like this anonymously and to be taking political sides? You should be ashamed of yourself. No wonder no one takes the Journal seriously, it has been a Republican rag newspaper for years and we all know who you are in bed with.
Bill Nelson should be ashamed of himself for taking credit for the things that Art Sciorra and city staff worked cooperatively to make happen, like the reconstruction of the waterfront, beautifying Ford Street, and lowering city taxes.
To Anonymous 10:52, 11:05, and 11:28;
It's a simple process to get rid of me. Instead of shooting your mouth off at that computer, get of your butt and start a recall petition. Otherwise grow some hair on your chest and use your name. You're a coward to hide your identity.You are obviously the same person, probably little Nick Vaugh. A pathetic loser no matter who you are.
This was a good blog .. now all of you that want to attack and not show any respect Nick , Skamp and their gang go to Hot Topics Ogdensburg. This should clean it up.
This was a good blog .. now all of you that want to attack and not show any respect.. Art, Nick , Skamp and their gang go to Hot Topics Ogdensburg. This should clean it up.
Mr. Morley is the only one using his NANE - you are ALL COWARDS.Think about it your hiding as you blame others for hiding! Looossers!
For 5 years there has been problems with Art Scorria's records!
All people going door to door to be elected found out 80% of the voters want him out!
You can count on one hand Scorria supporters!
Read these blogs - lies - lies -lies - Scorria rolls around on them ..like a dog in dirt!
This 819 Knox St is not the only thing Scorria has done- its the tip of the iceberg!
HOW CAN EVERYONE BE WRONG BUT HIM !
Clearly, the mayor and deputy mayor are so weak and ineffective as leaders that they have allowed an issue that only cost the city $2000 to $3000 dollars get way way way out of hand and cost us in the tens of thousands. Now we could get sued by Sciora and Woods. Good going, guys.
OK children be quiet NOW, The ADULTS are going to say something :
We will settle THIS latest fiasco NEXT Tuesday-- the insanity must stop if our children are to have ANY future here and those who have the means determine IF THEY wish to continue to INVEST in Ogdensburg or move elsewhere
. Any remaining "political detritus" should be dealt with in successive elections.
It IS time for Change on multiple levels .
Vote Tuesday !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mr Morley, I don't think my wife appreciates you calling her my ex-wife and neither do I. In fact you may get an ear full from her the next time she sees you. We built our house in Lisbon and I have been spending whatever free time I have completing it so it can be sold. According to NYS election law I have 30 days to move into town once elected and that is my plan. Didn't you find it strange when my wife and I showed up on your front step campaigning. Do you not remember us sitting on your front porch talking about the election? How can you come to such a conclusion? Please in the interest of us working together for Ogdensburg refrain from making any personal attacks on my family.
Mr. McGrath... Mr Morley is like a hot air balloon, when the air is let out he just fizzles away. I am going to vote for you and most of my friends have indicated they are going to vote for you for the simple reasoning of a change.. We hope you win then do the right thing for this city..
Obviously this city needs leadership and needs it quickly and I dont mean with a career politican with his goals set for everything but Ogdensburg
Firing this manager has become a vindictive effort by Nelson and his lap dog Morley, I would hope your goal will simply be to rid the city of him in any manner advantageous to the city and us taxpayers.
As far as 632 Rantings about not signing their name look at the signature..
To Jack McGrath;
I apologize if I have referred to Tamara as your ex-wife. It is so hard to tell because while she has lived there for 3 years, you have just started appearing there sporatically in the last month. If you really want to be taken seriously, be truthful from the start. State that, while not a resident now, you have plans to move into town. Don't give an address where you personally did not live.
No, I did not find it strange that you and Tamara showed up at my house. You were usung her address, so some association with her had to be arranged. Now, when you showed up with Skamperle, that I did find strange. I will tell you now what I told you then, I do not play politics. Whoever wins, wins. I did not make a personal attack on you or your family. And I do not lie. I stated my personal observations over a lengthy period of time. Was I wrong in where you resided? Did you in fact live at 911 Lake St. prior to announcing a run for Mayor? Be truthful, now. One way or the other, I don't care. Just don't have your supporters claiming Nelson lives in Lisbon to sway support your way, when, in fact, you do, or at least did, live in Lisbon.
P.S. I can work with anyone, Jack. All I require is for that person to be honest.
Mr. Morley, you should be ashamed of yourself. If this is the kind of politics that you and Mayor Nelson want to play, then we're no longer going to support you as a city.
Mr Morley, 911 Lake St. is where my wife runs her daycare center. We could not run it at our Lisbon home because it is on the water and she could not get certified there. You may have noticed me coming and going now because of the election, who knows. We stay in both places and I have NOT move there yet. However, I will when elected! As soon as our house sells in Lisbon we will purchase a permanent home in Ogdensburg as the Lake St. house is a rental. I hope this answers you question. Do not expect me to get drawn into this blog, if you have anymore questions for me please call me 315-276-5678 (cell)
Now Mike Morley I will state this with passion. You are playing politics and dirty at that.. heres a fact.
If Mcgrath does not live at Lake St it dosnt matter. He has thirty days when elected to move into the city..
If Nelson does not live in the City it does matter. He is the mayor now and has been for some time. Are you supporting him breaking the law and the charter..He spends most of hiss time at the Lisbon address..
Now you were looking into Vaugh.. I dont know what you found but its there in a nutshell about Nelson so for our sake you should question him in open session about it.
You have claimed from day one you dont play politics.. Shame... You lied obviously isnt that what you claimed Sciorra did to you..
Now it becomes clear that Mr. Morley is the mayor's lapdog, launching baseless personal attacks and smearing good people on these blogs so that Bill Nelson can get more votes.
You owe Mr. McGrath an apology, at the very least, Mr. Morley. You have also lost a supporter today.
Mr. Morley you have now taken this to a whole new level of disgusting. Here is a blog started for the purpose of discussing Nelsons attempt at firing the city manager in time for the election. You have stated over and over again that you dont play politics and then try and start a rumor by throwing in remarks about Mr. McGrath's personal life, which from the looks of his response you know nothing about. Maybe we should camp outside your doorstep and report on what may or may not be going on in your house. Or better yet maybe we should start a rumor that your wife is starting a committee to have you recalled. I will admit I know nothing of you personally but had heard you were a staight shooter, you have blown that theory to bits in my eyes. You are very simply a soldier for Bill Nelson, as a Repblican I am appauled. Mr. McGrath, thank you for responding, on behalf of the many Republicans that are supporting you, I thank you for running for Mayor and can only hope that the voters Tuesday will send a message loud and clear that we have has enough of the lying and manipulation that is so prevalant in the current administration.
To Anonymous 12:12; Maybe you ought to watch the meetings. I did ask both Vaugh and Nelson where they live in open session. Did you miss that? If you can prove that the Mayor lives in Lisbon, please come to the Council meeting with your proof.I would be interested in seeing it. I do not play politics. Period. You accuse me of lying, but I use my name while you use an alias. You simply amaze me.
Mr. Morley what is your obsession with calling people out to identify themselves, you are a public figure, you owe your constituents answers, they owe you nothing but their support until you abuse it. I have been following these blogs and very rarely comment, but you have become so obvious I can't help myself. Is Bill Nelson really worth the support you are losing, is he worth having your reputation as a stand up guy tarnished. I hope so because I don't know how you can fix it now. Please stop, you are so obvious it is sickening. You owe Mr. McGrath and his wife a heartfelt apology, not the half ass one that you posted on here where you just used it as an opportunity to take another shot at him, I would suggest pleading temporary insanity.
To Anon 12: 39;
Please feel welcome to come watch me. Sit on my porch if you want to. There is a nice comfortable swing to relax on. It will be boring duty. Bring a book. I don't understand why it is alright for some of you to support Jack, but it is not alright for me to support Bill. Could anyone explain that? I am only one vote, just like you, and cannot sway any election because I try to mind my own business. If you feel as strongly as you indicate, don't support me next time if I run. Vote, it's your duty. Choose whoever you like, but remember, miracles are not going to happen. Give that person a chance.
Are you really that arrogant, "recall Me if you don't like it", "don't vote for me next time". Why don't you try listening to the people that elected you. It is one thing to support Bill, it's another to attack his opponent and wife personally. You know Nelson lives in Lisbon and has for years, yet you let that go or worse yet lie for him. I can not wait for this election to be over and I look forward to your term being up, Mr. Nelson has rubbed off on you and you are certainly not the man I thought you were.
Mike Morley
The answer to your question is simple.. Most of us in the City know what Mr. Nelson consists of. Hot air, smiles, kissing babies, smiling for cameras, smiling for Patty Ritchie and anyone that might get him a vote or two.
We need a mayor who has the interest of the city at heart not the self serving interest of Bill Nelson.
More than any one man Nelson is the reason this debacle started and certainly the fualt for it prolonging. He backed Arts every move every mistke and when it come to calling residents liars he backed Sciorra.. Now that it has come to light what people are thinking he wants the manager gone..He was suprised how many people wanted him gone.. This alone shows how out of touch with the taxpayers Nelson is..
Now that this thing is in full bloom my opinion is that Sciorra needs to be let go because of the lying and not stepping up to the task we expect of a manager. Woods is gone or I would want him fired. Cosmo needs some disiplinary action for not following orders and if he had a problem with those orders at least questioning council on them.. But he wouldnt question council would he because council was one hundred percent behind Sciorra..
So now it comes down to Nelson tryibg to give a false appearcne in the eyes of voters when in fact only one perosn caused most of this.. Bill Nelson himself..
When Patty Ritchie needed helpd uring the 2001 ekectuib against Aubertine Nelson backed Scott Gray and not the home girl.. Last year he helped push VAugh out of the 118th reace in favor of Forsythe.. All of this was planned for his future run to ALbany fame.. To hell with Ogdensburg I,m going to ALvany is his battle cry..
So on tuesday Lets send Nelson Back to Lisbon :>)
Thats the idea about a fresh start. Jack McGrath can concentrate on the city business and nelson can study up on politics in NNY for his run against either Patty or Addie..
Bill and his politics have become cancerous for the city taxpayers and voters and it needs to stop..
Ask most people and they want the council to fire Sciorra.. They dont give a rats a-- about cause or anything else.. Most are in agreement that Cosmo created some problems also and should see some santionts. We dont need the charade with Nelsons puss in the camera every week making false and manufactured statements.
My opinion of who leaked the info was Cosmo no. 1 Nelson no2 or VAugh
The most to gain from this is Nelson but Cosmo is looking to run the city again in some form and this mess is helping...
Woods beat Art to the punch and resigned and was the main cause of this but certainly Cosmo right up there
Is there a third choice for Mayor?
I would like to hear from him or her... not these people? With all these great minds in the city were screwed!
I am shocked at the lack of leadership. We are wasting tax dollars on all of these investigations - why not just pay Sciorra's severance pay and be done with it? Who is in charge of our city? The mayor and the city council are acting like a bunch of lame ducks.
A businessman would know how to cut the waste from our city and get rid of Sciorra promptly and responsibly. Ogdensburg is being led by a bunch of clowns. Time for a change.
How about this! On this blog they are fighting about " the rule.. to be mayor you have to live in the city" the two clowns running are actually splitting hairs and both playing with the interpation of that rule! What a Joke ! If they were BOTH honest... pigs do fly!
Mike Morley Some leadership is baddly needed.. CAn you step up as its obvious Nelson is lost in space... The spy glass you use from your back yard is obviously cracked so throw it away and step up and give us some leadership..
Your supporting Nelson is your business however what Mr. and Mrs McGrath do at their residence is their business not yours to tell the world you veiw of their life.
This is the worse debacle in the City for generations. Our high school kids laugh at you and your mayor. Voters are laughing at the affair. Other cities are using us as their example of what not to do in government.. We are the news of entire NYS..
We have a mayor who cant conduct an orderly meeting that makes any sense. We have an attorney who recuses himslef a month and a half into an iinvestiagiton. We hav3e a council who cannot trust each other, what a mess. You fire or let go one culprid, yu want to fire the chief culprid and let the third party to this action off scott free and run the city while we wait for you guys to pick someone else.
Take a vote now and fire him or leave it alone.
Mike Morley or any canidate interested
Noun 1. legal residence - (law) the residence where you have your permanent home or principal establishment and to where, whenever you are absent, you intend to return; every person is compelled to have one and only one domicile at a time; "what's his legal residence?"
domicile
law, jurisprudence - the collection of rules imposed by authority; "civilization presupposes respect for the law"; "the great problem for jurisprudence to allow freedom while enforcing order"
abode, residence - any address at which you dwell more than temporarily; "a person can have several residences"
Based on WordNet 3.0, Farlex clipart collection. © 2003-2008 Princeton University, Farlex Inc.
Place of Abode is different than legal residence... Nelson is in violation of the law.. McGrath will be if he fails to move in after his election win.
Lets do an investigation and ask Andy Silver his interputattion of the law...
Is this what were to expect as a new mayor above? This is not what I will vote for!
Is this what were to expect as a new mayor above? This is not what I will vote for!
Why did Bill Nelson tell Art not to fire Justin Woods? Politics.
Why did Bill Nelson start an unnecessary investigation process?
Politics.
Why did Bill Nelson leak the report to delay action until after the election?
Politics.
Why has Bill Nelson been running this city like a three ring circus ringmaster for the past dozen years?
Politics.
I think we've had enough of politicians
12PM hit it right on the head. Let clear the air in Ogdensburg a bit. We have a chance to end the nonsense lets do it..
We need a new mayor we need new counsilors..
I have witnessed first hand Mr. Morley try to dirty Mr. Mcgrath with rumor and insinueto.. Someone has stated Nelson lives other than in the city.. I have personally driven by the residence in question and seen Nelson at that residence several times since this was reported..
I am a firm believer Mr. Sciorra needs to go but in some proffessional quiet manner.. The circus created by Bill Nelson has to stop. This city has beocme the laughing stock of the easter United States under Bill Nelson.
Remember when Nelson was sending the mayor of Watertown pictures of himself shirtless thumbing his nose at us from Aruba this spring.. Why? Is this how he feels about the majority of taxpayers in this city? His exwife tries to degrade her cousin in public session all to make Nelson look good.. Morley grandstanding for some voters the other night asking Art will you please resign..
Mike MOrley has stated he does not play politics.. Why is he?? It gives the appearance that Nelson hs something on him.
A major employer was looking into Ogdensburg with the possibility of starting a business here.. Duh.. the mayor new nothing about it.. Hes been behind the times and if there were no election this week he wowuld still be supporting Art SCiorra and closed sessions to keep the others quiet... WE NEED A CHANGE FOLKS..
People seem to forget! Who has been the CEO in charge? Who has ruled the city with his style of management? Who has fired over 6 people at city hall? Who has brought this attitude to city hall? Who does 80% of the voters want out? Who is going to sit on his butt , drawing and watch everything and everyone try to find a way to fire him! Who makes city hall a hell hole for workers? This is the BIG PROBLEM at c CITY HALL!
I find these blogs so interesting. I understand that a process has to be followed to terminate Art. Many people refuse to understand that. I dont believe Nelson or anyone else is playing politics, if that was the case Art would be gone already.You have to dot you I and Cross your T. Mr. Morley you have done a great job speaking for the people!
Mr.McGrath your not the change this city needs. Your a power hugrey person that wants attention. You have demenstated this with the Chamber. The people need to becarfull. In my eyes Jack is just another ART.!
I dont know Jack but I know man of his family and their a great bunch of people. I,ve heard alot of good things about Jack.. Morley gaive me some bad points but that all turned out to be rumor that he started..
I look around this city and hear my friends and neighbors talk and can only come to one conclusion..
If Jack McGrath is another Art it certainly is a step up from Bill Nelsons politics
So you think Jack McGraph is another Art? Most of these blogs do suggest that! Very over bearing and power hungry with the same selling points! The person or Jack is actually over selling himself in these blogs.Run over anyone that does not say he's 100%correct! That's Art's way!
I'll take someone who will work their butt off for four years instead of status quo. Status quo has led to where we are today. Time for change, no doubt! Get out and vote, vote McGrath! We need a businessman not a politician! Chant to the same cadence as, "we need a pitcher not a belly itcher".
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