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| A Shell Game With Grant Money |
Mayor Nelson and the council are calling for an independent investigation into the management of the Housing Program. This is a strong move by the Council which passed with only one reluctant councilor, Mr. Vaugh. This is an indication that Council has nothing to hide and is moving towards a more transparent government.
I agree with Ms. Bruyere, she took issue with the use of more than $105,000 in grant funds to renovate the home at 2 Grove St. Add that to the $80,000 worth of renovation the Knox Street property, and the $50,000 they are giving the occupants to buy the house. Something is definitely wrong with this picture!!!
Why is the City buying houses, renovating them with taxpayer's money, and giving grant money when they sell it. The City Manager appeared to be play a shell game with our money. Dump grant money into a city owned house, sell it with grant money to the City. When the sale is complete, what was once grant money is now City money.
Journal Article
52 comments:
Mr. Sciorra has appointed a new assessor. Was this classified service position publicly advertised and competitive? Does it need to be? Was council informed? Do they need to be?
I do not know the answers to these questions. Civil Service Law is confusing. But hopefully we will get assurances that proper procedure was followed.
I will say that the new assessor sounds quite qualified.
What about also using the grants to pay themselves the tax money owed on the house?
Of course, it doesn't make sense for us to be complaining about money being funneled into our own general fund, better it come from the feds than from city taxes.
Still, Art's behavior puts Ogdensburg at risk of losing out on grant money it desperately needs for its future.
Art's behavior puts Ogdensburg at risk? The council's behavior puts Ogdensburg at risk. This investigation should have been called for back in August. We can't trust the City Attorney to do a fast, fair investigation on his own boss. What the hell was the council thinking?
Just simple math tells you that in " ONE GRANT " written..the Administrator and Delivery was paid to an outside source of $167,000.00. "ONE GRANT WE GET SEVERAL GRANTS" ART and Justins have gutted city halls ability to write such grants. They sent the money out of town to CW Augustine. Whom is maybe lobbying or discussing subjects in a closed door -off the record meeting at the Freight House TODAY. Only people running for office are invited! I call this SMOOOZing the canidates!
If we did this in House we could turn a profit and resume control
of Housing! Have 2 more Jobs at city Hall - have Quality work on Homes - We can inspect the housing
- Put our Hometown Contractors to work - Be able to get Answers of the program in One centralized office - etc. These Grants can turn a profit.
Just simple math tells you that in " ONE GRANT " written..the Administrator and Delivery was paid to an outside source of $167,000.00. "ONE GRANT.. WE GET SEVERAL GRANTS" ART and Justins have gutted city halls ability to write such grants. They sent the money out of town to CW Augustine. Whom is maybe lobbying or discussing subjects in a closed door -off the record meeting at the Freight House TODAY. Only people running for office are invited! I call this SMOOOZing the canidates!
If we did this in House we could turn a profit and resume control
of Housing! Have 2 more Jobs at city Hall - have Quality work on Homes - We can inspect the housing
- Put our Hometown Contractors to work - Be able to get Answers of the program in One centralized office - etc. These Grants can turn a profit.
How the tide changes.. Nelson two weeks ago was ready to be voted out of office. He seen the oppurtunity to sacrafice a body so here we are today on the brink of a very close election..
Folk... Take a deep breath and think for one minute... We need change.. We need a new outlook.. We need new blood on our government.. We need Jack McGrath voted in... Nelson hasnt done anything until this month.. Now he garners the votes..
After reading The Journal this morning, it looks like Big Bill Nelson wants to do tonight's meeting behind closed doors. I think that is unacceptable, especially for a guy who has talked so much about transparent government over the past few weeks.
We all need to be there at city hall to support Mike Morley and keep our two-faced mayor from conducting the public's business in secret.
Rosie, you aren't credible. If you were a little less crazy looking and sounding people might take your word for it, I know you're smart but the image you project is that of a lunatic - someone with serious mental problems, possibly a head injury.
You yell randomly during council meetings. You have poor hygiene. You have those maniacal looking googly-eyes and rotten-sausage breath. You are so wound up over your chance to assassinate Art Sciorra's character that you can't type in complete, coherent sentences, and your spelling and punctuation is atrocious. You jump to conclusions without making a complete argument.
Even if what you say is right on the money, most people have difficulty taking you seriously because you come off like some kind of conspiracy nut.
You would be most helpful if you just took your findings to the council or the paper and let them report them, because people are tuning you out.
YUP>>>> Enough is enough... My problem is the independant report.. We asked for that several weeks ago but no one on council asked for one.. Why??
No we are close to election and Nelson wants an independant report? Is he afraid that what he needs wont be in Silvers reports? Is the Independat report a stall to keep this thing alive???
I for the world of me cant figure this out... Nelson is the amin problem with this governmentt.. He has sat back and let Art Sciorra grow into a two headed monster.. Instead of playing politics at Nelsons request Sciorra should have fired Woods back as far as June.. Only Nelson didnt want that at that time.
Remember the first meeting about the issue he retired to executive session. Why? He was still hidding Art and was going to protect him further. We objected to the closed session but he said oh well... Remember..
Just take a few minutes to think back beyond the events of Knox St and think.. Was I happy with this council and Nelson.. If you were your in the minority but vote for him.. Nicky Vaugh has no credibility and has taken it o the chin for his stances... Do you think he cares.. Hes out anyway and has moved like most young people do.. I personally think this has been somewhat staged to benefit Nelson but we may never know.. Have your taxes gone down in the last few years... are you kids still living around here other than the ones working the prisons.. What new business has opened of any consequence.. Has crime gone down? Does your neighborhood prospered? Hass the city services gotten better for you?? I want a change and I hope you do.. Ill vote Mcgrath, Mccoy, Amo, and Hosmer next weekand try to get that change.
I am a life time registered Republican but ritht now I,m so down on the local Republican party with the canidates they chosen and Fred Beans support for the big raises for the superintendant and his assistant..
We all ought to cut out the personal attacks. Do you realize the image we project of our City and ourselves to those who read this?
Why the hell is the city going into executive session tonight? What do they have to hide? We already know most of what happened, what could they need to confer with the city attorney about? Something is clearly being covered up here by the mayor, it stinks to high heaven.
Please attend the council meeting at 7:pm this evening at city hall. They can not go right into executive session this would be a violation of the open meeting law. The report by Attoreny Silver was paid for by public money and therefore has to be made public. If they go into executive session they should not allow Art Sciorra to attend this session. If the city council does allow Mr. Sciorra to attend this session it will be nothing more than a cover up by certain council members.
My prediction: Nothing happens before the election but a lot more free press that Nelson can use for his campaign. Then regardless of the outcome he leaves Scorria alone.
To anonymous 3:36
If you are a betting man, I will wager against that.
Mike, why does he want to meet in a private session?
I have to compliment you for wanting to have an open meeting, good for you.
To anonymous 3:57,
I think they believe it is a personel item.I don't buy into that. I think the purpose of the investigation was to see if proper procedure was followed. Thus not personel, no matter what is said.
Mike, Chris Robbins here. I thought it was because of attorney-client privilege.
However, unless you guys are soliciting advice from Andy Silver that depends solely on his legal expertise, the council can't claim attorney-client privilege.
Furthermore, if it ends up that you do need Andy Silver's advice, you can only close the session for as long as it takes to render his opinion - all other discussions must be out in the open per New York State Open Meetings Law.
we need change in this city join me and vote for amo on november 8th
No its Nelsons privilege.. Hes done this for the last six years.. Everything goes into executive session.. Bill Nelson is the reason that this local government has been so secretive..
They now have a report from their attorney.. Some have made up their mind without knowing whats what and others have waited to see this report..
Unless this report allows the public to ask Mr. Silver questions it is worthless.. For Morley and Nelson to fire questions from their point of veiw and Skamp and Vaugh ti question from their view would be wothless..
I have a need to know if Nelsos daughter now lives in one of these revamped houses under her boyfriends name.. Strictly rumor I believe but if its true Nelson needs to be strung up.. I heard this story from three people now
Yes Rosie that different... A few months ago a group promoting the four lane hwy destined for this area aske council to contribute five thousand dollars to help promote this.. Morley Shollette, Cilley and Skamperele voted to give the money but Vaugh and Nelson objected alot.. Powers joined there protest but the resolution passed.. Next meeting all three changed to yes votes..
Why spend thrity five thousand to Clarkson and have a kid do a report on jobs in Ogdensburg when they tried to deny a cause that will bring jobs to the entire area.. Clarkson now donates alot of that money to Matt Doheny to campaign against Owens under the title of looking for jobs.
We need a mayor that can take charge and make this a desireable place to live and for busniess to locate again. Nelson has too many side interests like the mayors association and running for Assembly next year..
I,m not sure I beieve what I just read about Nelsons family but I guess it can be checked out.. Get the friends name and it has to be in the public records.
This city has gone beyond embarrassing. Sciorra has turned a minor issue into an embarrassment that has lasted for months. If he'd taken responsibility immediately instead of blaming Wears, Cosmo, Woods, and his dog, it would have been no big deal. Now he's made himself look bad, he's made our city look bad, he's made Nelson look worse than ever, he's making state and federal granting agencies question whether they want to continue to fund our city.
All so he could keep his $100,000 a year job with as much control and secrecy as possible. What an embarrassing pig.
Vote Nelson out. But fire Art as soon as possible.
We the citizens and voters of this city intend to vote Nelson out and hopefully put someone in that cares.. Enough already if Mcgrath dosnt work out lets start a recall asap.. Give him a chance but no more BS like Nelson has dished out for years...
8:46
It needs to start with getting rid of Art. Five years of secrecy, arrogance, and divisiveness. Tells people what they want to hear. Not so good on the follow through.
Step 1: This issue is so important that I need to fire Mr. Woods.
Step 2: Oh, now you're questioning my involvement? Don't get so bent out of shape. It's only one or two houses.
Brought to you by the guy who brought a dying cheese factor back to life. The guy who brought a developer with deep pockets to redevelop the Diamond site. The guy who ignored council's silly suggestion that the city develop a policy to auction public land. The guy who's so popular he has 600,000 unread emails.
Tonight was another display of ridiculous. Apparently some council members think this a smoking gun to get Art fired but the attorney is stating over and over again this is a report about the programs. Let me say sternly Art must go!!! But this rush is so political it reeks. That document should be read word for word by every single council member in a room by themselves without inference or interjection by other members. Mr. Morley was like a rabid dog knowing he only has a week to fire Art so Nelson has a chance of getting re-elected. It was so unbelievably obvious. Just do your job, cover the cities butt so we don't open ourselves up to a lawsuit. Take the time to do things right and quit rushing for votes, Mr. Morley I believe you are a better man that that.
The City Manager turned to me on Monday night at the meeting and said to me, " I lied to you , Mike." And I know it wasn't the only time. How much trust do you think I have in him? That's why I want it over as quickly as possible.
Do we want to discuss why he lied to you Mike, why he told you one thing and the mayor something else. Do you think the Mayor knew he was lying, did he call him out for it. Are you telling me that you and the Mayor have not discussed the importance of getting him out before the election. Let me put this differently, everyone says ask Mike Morley a straight question you get a straight answer. Have you and the mayor discussed the impact of dealing with Art may have on the election?
6:40
The big takeaway is that Art isn't smart enough to think before he speaks. His top priority in city management is self-protection. But he's not bright enough to minimize his exposure to ugly stories.
Whatever Mike and Bill say now, this is the guy we've allowed to run our city for FIVE years? $100,000 to a guy who can't even plan out his lies ahead of time?
Lets key on the most important issue here... Our mayor is a liar also.. He will do anything to get elected even trample a friend.
Nelson always recolects things differently at his convenience. He has used this public display of stupididy and lies to attempt to grandstand to the people when in fact he is the biggest reason its gone on so long.
Voters we must focus on removing this fungus from city hall and set an example for all future mayors and council members that we will accept no less than honest hard working individuals to represent us in the future..
REMEMBER nov 8th is our future so get out and vote for JACK MCGRATH
ps.. I havnt agreed with Nick Vaugh much in the last four years but one thing I agree on is tht this document belongs with the public not at city hall... Dont try and squash our rights Nelson..
Lets key on the most important issue here... Our mayor is a liar also.. He will do anything to get elected even trample a friend.
Nelson always recolects things differently at his convenience. He has used this public display of stupididy and lies to attempt to grandstand to the people when in fact he is the biggest reason its gone on so long.
Voters we must focus on removing this fungus from city hall and set an example for all future mayors and council members that we will accept no less than honest hard working individuals to represent us in the future..
REMEMBER nov 8th is our future so get out and vote for JACK MCGRATH
ps.. I havnt agreed with Nick Vaugh much in the last four years but one thing I agree on is tht this document belongs with the public not at city hall... Dont try and squash our rights Nelson..
Mike Morley
You were asked a while ago about the sales tax issue.. Its been two weeks has that letter been sent yet or is Nelson still hiding from that issue.. You replied to the question and sttted you thought Nelson was for it and you would see if the letter had been snet.
Clean house on NOV 8th !! That is the True take away !!
Taxpayers PAID for this report - it MUST be PUBLIC . We must demand accountability -
Frankly by their repeated actions I do not TRUST ANY of these people to serve as FILTERS for the public . Let the PUBLIC see the report IF you are OPEN, Accountable and Transparent -- otherwise you give the strong impression of shielding and selectively interpreting the report for us .
We do not trust that process at all
To 6:40:
It doesn't matter how I answer your question because you only believe one thing. The answer though is no.
To Iam Fedup;
I do not yet know if that letter has been sent. We usually don't get copies of out-going mail, only letters to us. As you may not know, Art and I don't have lunch together, so he doesn't give me a lot of information.
Mike...
this is exactly whats wrong with this entire system up here.. Nelson could have gave an answer and coordinated this thing. Right now its politics as usuall.. Our Senator is totally against it. He dosnt want to cross her he needs her smile alongside his smile as much as possible. How long does it take to get a straight answer from anyone.. No one even you apparently cares about issues which totally inpact his city. Bill Nelson has a one track mind.. Get elected.. Forget the taxpayers just get elected..
I for one dont believe now that this situation is all that bad;.. Sciorra proabley should at the leats be santioned somehow or fired but Nelson has twisted this entire thing to try and make people think hes the second coming of Jesus..The trouble is he smiles out of both sides.. He stays safe on the tax issue while he outrightly attempts to neglect the interstate issue while he really opposes it in the form presented.
The man is living the majority of his life in Lisbon the man has goals for future office that dont include Ogdensburg and the man cares about nothing but his election in a week and that has become obvious to all.
Sorry for being critical but it seems like a pretty simple task. to ask about the sales tax letter...
To Iam Fedup;
I agree with you on some points. Sciorra has to go because he has lost the trust of the people. Period. It doesn't matter what I think personally. It is what the people think, and that is he must go.
I also agree that the system works if people don't try to hide things. We got into trouble because two people tried to keep the Council out of the loop. Of course Council is outraged. We have been made to look like FOOLS. Our only recourse is to rid the City of both people who allowed this to happen.
I believe that Council oversight is needed in the Housing rehab program. I will go so far as to say it should be brought back in-house. We cannot review programs when we don't receive even simple updates when we ask for them. If the program was headquartered in City Hall,instead of Dekalb Junction, we would have better opportunity to keep an eye on what is going on. For example; The NSP program allows us to sell a house for what we have into it, including back taxes and rehab costs. So if we have $30,000 in back taxes and $70,000 in rehab and $5000 in atty costs, we should be asking for $100,000, because I don't believe atty fees are among costs that can be recouped. Makes you wonder why we ask $51,000 for a house we have $120,000 in,doesn't it? I will give one more example. We have another house that between back taxes and rehab we have $105,000 in, yet the asking price is around $40,000. Why? Because the City Council was not informed, and was not able to demand a better return on money invested. Money that could keep the program going.
I have other things I would like to say, but it sounds like Monday morning quarterbacking. I voted to keep the program inhouse andlost 6-1. I voted that way for the reasons you see happening. We lost oversight. We must take the program back, at least into City Hall , where a Councilor can stop and ask questions.
Once again although i have disagreed with Mr Morley on several issues , I believe he is on target here with this concept of running the program in house an holding the program manager and city manager accountable for reporting specific actions and results each month .
I will say one more thing about housing rehab, and then I will keep still. We should not be putting so much money ( $50,000- $100,000) into any single house in the City.If a house requires that much money, it should be torn down or sold to a private investor. NSP ( neighborhood stabilization program) funds would be better used if that money were devided between several houses instead of just one. Neighborhood to means means multiple dwellings. If we were to go back to the old way where we spent a maximum of $20,000 to $25,000 on each house, a lot more houses would be brought up to code, and the neighborhood would improve more quickly because multiple houses are in better shape. It would improve the housing stock, while increasing the tax base, thus easing the pressure on those 27% paying taxes.
I agree again here except TEAR the substandard stuff down unless the private buyer shows a specific plan to upgrade to expected code standard AND does not plan to use the property for rental under the multiple housing code . WE do NOT need any more slumlords in this city.
To 12:40
I totally agree. Complete plans and single family stays single family. I don't mind single family homes becoming rental property because there is a need here for good clean and modern single family rental homes. But I would prefer no absentee landlords. They should live here in case of emergency or trouble.
Your right Mr. Morley I do not beleive that you and Mr Nelson have not discussed the political impact of dealing with Art and what it means for his re-election. I have always heard really good things about you, that your not about the politics. In your memo to Mr. Scorria that you read out loud you clearly stated that you thought Mr. Scorria should step down so the incumbent mayor could get re-elected. The City manager needs to go because if he had any credibility it has been destroyed...we need new leaders starting with the Mayor and the City Manager. It's just sad to see another Councilor that will allow himself to be manipulated by the politics. Hopefully there are enough voters out there that understand that the Mayor is just one vote and that they need good council members that will put the city above thier political party to make good decisions and that will tell the truth.
Mike Morley..
I,m sorry that you have chosen this route to achieve Arthur Sciorras dismissal.. Mayor Nelson is clearly playing politics and using you just as he has Nick VAugh and Michael Powers for the past three years.
I,m not saying Sciorra is lily white as obviously he isnt but dont sit and campaign for Nelson and his re-election... Nelson created the monster that sits in city hall now.. Nelson supoorted him and gave him the strenght to do the things he has done.. Mostly against your wishes.. Michael I want to say this with all my heart, dont you stand between Nelson and some votes or you will certainly find out what I,m talking about. I dont believe for one minute that Nelson hass not known whats been going on for some time.. Be carefull my frieen and dont get swept away with the tide of change I feel is coming to our city..
M. Dolengy,
I don't do things to benefit any politician. I work for people. That's why I called for Sciorra's resignation. If you noticed, I called for it first, before anyone else. If you think you would like someone else doing my job, vote for someone else. it is a simple process. Or you can start a recall vote. Look at election law to find out how. Either way, I don't care, and I don't like being threatened. Do what you think you must.
To anonymous 1:22,What I wrote was, " I believe people should be able to go to the polls and vote for or against an incumbent based on how that person has done, not on how you have done." I see no support for or against the Mayor. As I have said before, I do not play politics. What you and M. Dolengy are telling me is that you support the antics of Nick and Dan, who continually defend Art against all evidence. Everyone is a liar except those 3. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but that is what I interpret from your rantings.
I don't beleive that this campaign to get rid of the city manager for political purposes is a proper or professional approach for dealing with the issue. Your attempt to tie that view to Vaugh or Skamperle because they seem to be pissing off the public right now is again simply a political ploy.
Rumor has it that the report has been read and there is no smoking gun and that it appears the city manager followed protocol. Mr. Morley you must have read the report by now in its entirety, do you now have grounds to fire Mr. Scorria?
I will not disclose what I read in the report. I still hold the same opinion.
Are you kidding me? You wanted to open it up at the meeting? Now have you nothing to say? Guess it didn't support your efforts to call for termination.
It's a simple question, did the report prove that Mr. Scorria did anything that would give you grounds for termination or will you have to choose simply not to renew his contract?
I guess you won't know until Tuesday night.
Well that should give you and the Mayor plenty of time to get your game plan down. So much for transparency in our current governing body.
This has been spinning out of control for some time. Everyone wants someone blood. Everyone wants Nick's blood and that is ok.
I ask a question, what is Mr. McGrath all about? The only thing I get is "revitalization", that does not happen just by electing someone. He has little or no platform and is running against the current shit in city hall.
I have to say Mayor Nelson has accomplished many things and they should not be over looked. Cleaned up lake street, new Dobisky Center, pool, waterfront expansion, Diamond cleanup, walking bridge is started on lake street. Mayor Nelson has established connections in the political abyss.
What are we getting with McGrath? He bought Oscars, and sold it. That did not work so what is next, mayor?
I would think long and hard when I pull that lever November 8th. My vote is for Bill Nelson
Yes Under this mayor we got a million dollar cost overrun on the Dobisky center forgot the AC , forgot the kitchen water and sewer rates have been raised annually , yes he did nothing to stop NYS from dumping their Level III perverts in our city , yes Ogdensburg has turned in a drug addled street crime wave , Yes our neighborhoods are still deteriorating , yes our kids are leaving in droves because the ONly
thing here is the Prison which the best of our talented kids have no interest in .
Yes we have been the laughingstock of NNY for this latest debacle and finally what have we got to show after 16 yrs ,
Our population continues to decline and our tax base has NOT been enhanced .
27 % of us pay the freight for 100% of the tax hit.
So yes Ogdensburg THINK HARD before you pull the lever on Nov 8 , We are in need of new leadership.
Oh 5:52 you forgot the old Alliance Marina conversion to townhouses flop. This all in the name of public access to the river. Had to keep the sidewalks open so Oburg finest could walk in front of hundred thousand dollar taxable property looking at their feet. Oh the memories are starting to come back.
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