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| How Much Will it Cost the Voters? |
Mr. Vaugh, just resign, please! Mr. Skamperle said, "It is a heck of a lot more than taxpayers lost on the property at 819 Knox St.". The question is, what price should we put on an honest and open government in Ogdensburg? The voters have lost confidence in our City Manager, which was reflected in the last council meeting. I have to agree with Mr. Cilley, Mr. Sciorra will have a difficult time managing the City if he stays.
Journal Article
119 comments:
The secrative government in Ogdensburg has fallen apart as it should.
Unless the charter is visited and the portion of the charter that addresses the duties and authority of the manager we will only fall prey to this again.
Heres my opinion and I state only from my memory.. Bill Nelson is the most responsible person for where we are at now. Only because the mayor is way behind in the mayors race is he doing this. Hes made a debacle out of what should have been a simple thing. Firing a person not capable of doing a job.
Even up to two weeks before this meeting Nelson was not talking to anyone about anything. He was holding meetings in private or executive session and just keeping a lid on this.. Why? Because he was going to back Art Sciorra to the end... During that time he found out the people of Ogdensburg are sick of the way Sciorra manages and he leads the council. He was suprised and I think shocked.. He now knows he must do something.. Pull a rabit out of a hat... No No Just throw Art out to the outraged public. That will make me a hero and now I have a chance in November.
He intentionally didnt keep a wild crowd in order when it didnt benefit him the other night.
Bill Nelson has run a tightlipped council for years. The news has constantly fought to get private session records and put him on record often with stories in the journal.. Even during this he has accused the journal of distorting the truth when in fact its Nelson that distorts the facts..
Yes he acomplished a lot during the first few years of his mayoral duties but in the last five or six years has turned into a true career politican.. Dodgin question changing positions on most everything.. Hes missed a couple of golden oppurtunities to get some momementom on getting industry her and infact didnt even know about an interested employer..
While the cities park and greenblet grew the infrastructurd and the rest of the city fell apart. Local businessmen were trated harshley by Sciorra and backed by Nelson and many businesses just said forget it.
I personally dont think Nelson is a bad poerson I just think time has come to have some new blood in that office.
Someone who may think of Ogdensburg as an entire city not just marinas and greenblet and competing with landlords and entering secret agreements with the housing authority..
Bill Nelson knew what was going on and he condoned it. We all know thats a reality. Bill Nelson is the person most responsible for the state Ogdensburg is in not just Justin woods and Art Sciorra..
They couldnt even take the time to do a job search and check the background of the managerial canidates they had a consultant do it.... Time for a change
COUNCLORS -Getting rid of UNCLE ART - could be cheep if :
The council would Work as a UNITED WHOLE BODY! WORK FOR US NOT ART!! you got 4 to 2 for fireing now!
STRIP HIM OF USING the CITY Attorney ! This is a legal game money breaks people - Art uses this against citizens so they quit going after on him - reverse it.
Then go after him with facts where he has lied to you!
SLC Housing - Teamed with an accounting agency - will prove -
money were dispersed illegally.
You also have Citizens that will come forth with his malicious prosecution of then. I seen to have a file dedicated for this purpose.
Him gone - finally City hall and department Heads can speak - and they got plenty to say!!
Art Scorria Deserves nothing - go after him council or you will all be voted OUT!!!! Vaugn go to ALBANY - your new home town!Skamperle go with him! Look in your rear view mirror boys, Art will be right behind you guys!
Art Scorria Deserves nothing - go after him council or you will all be voted OUT!!!! Vaugn go to ALBANY - your new home town!Skamperle go with him! Look in your rear view mirror boys, Art will be right behind you guys!
Rosie, most of your claims sound like assumptions and not facts. Unfortunately, the city council needs the facts before they get rid of Art or it will end up costing us too much.
In the future, we shouldn't give city managers 'golden parachutes'. This is not a corporation, it is our home.
It will take time to find a real city manager. with Mr. Wood off the payroll the City can recoup any payoff to Art relatively quick.
By acting alone Art may be costing the city more than the Knox Street fiasco. There might be other houses in the same boat.
If I had my way, Mr. Sciorra would get no severance.
Its just beyond belief that this city has operated in this manner for so long and no one knew anything. Our elected officals claim and I say claim very cautiously that they knew nothing of what was going on.. Then I think back to May and June when Sciorra approached Nelson and some council memebers about firing Woods because he misappropriated funds and was insubordinate.
Any body including Mayor Nelson should have smelled something foul at this time.
I am one of the few that belive in due process so I will wait until their lawyer gives us some facts.. I do think this is political and I think Nelson is the person makeing a mockery of the issue.. He allowed a meeting in city hall become loud and disruptive intentionally letting certain people be chastised abusively while protecting others.Justin Woods was the keynote speaker. This is the same guy that Nelson agreed to have fired becasue he was unworthy of employment here any longer.. This is the same guy that Nelson said wasnt showing up for workand was backing action so as the city didit pay him.. This guy now became a hero in the eyes of the public
The proper senerio and if Nelson would have acted like a represenative of us would have been to investigate this mess months earlier when the red flags were up.. Instead Nelson chose not to inform the public and hold executive sessions to keep us in the dark.. Only after he realized people were holding him accountable for the way the city was and the knox st issue did he go into mayor mode.
Woods is gone. I hope council can fire sciorra without too much difficulty and I hope the people vote for a new mayor that will give us a new start and open and transparent government here.
Untiil the Election we will have to put up with Nelson giving false hope, having his picture taking at every turn, smiling for the camera a city hall and giving false information in the form of industry coming or a new store opening.. I want a mayor who works for us for four years not just one month every four years.....
Yes ive talked to some of the homeowners that were not to happy!Rules and Regulations were NOT FOLLOWED!!! Assumptions you may think - my legal Rrep. says not ! When Arts on his own we will see.No one gets $400,000.00 from the SLC - NYS - or the Feds. without rules and regulations!
Mike Morley
Someone made a comment on a previous blog that Nick Vaugh lived in Albany and his mom keeps a room open. Shollette lives now in Rochester and hss openly stated that and has resigned I was told effective immediately. Is it a requirement that the elected officals must live in the Burg. How much time would Nick have to spend at his room here to be a legal resident?? I dont mean absentee but a legal resident....
http://articles.southbendtribune.com/2005-12-08/news/27007528_1_village-manager-public-works-director-position-vacation-time
Go to this site Sciorra apparently got locked out of his office elsewhere in NY..
After the mess someone did what Rosies doing reseach on the housing and lo and behold sewage problems where he was doing a business injustice.... The village paid a fine of one quarter million dollars..
Thanks Mr. Nelson, they paid that because the courts in Michagean stated he should have been supervised by the elected officals and they were responsible for his acitons. Whats that word you used for years micro-manage.....
Hopefully Mr Mcgrath will win and get us out of this.
To Iam Fedup,
I do not believe he is a legal resident, and will work on it.
WAT TO GO ! MORE PEOPLE LOOK!Thanks (Last Blogger) Some people do not want to believe me. Scorria is a troubled person never wrong in his mind and will spread his absolute power trip to high gear and run everyone down with him or around him. Thats if you buy into his way of thinking.
Nelson , Skamperele, And Vaugn have nothing in common at all - yet the fell for him hook line and sinker! 100% Morley- Sholette-
Hannon- Wears got his motive. Cielly about 90% and Powers 60%. This is MY opiniononly. Lets get rid of him and have a good election!
For the good of O-Burg Political -friends & foe lets get together send him packing. UNITED WE WILL WIN OVER ALL!
thank you for your mitzva, Mr. Scorra
http://www.vosizneias.com/19583/2008/08/21/ogdensburg-ny-city-manager-that-bought-ahava-dairy-praised-for-his-good-deed/
Mike
While chcking on Vaugh also check on Nelson. I have at least a dozen people that will testify Nelson is residing about eight percent of his time in Lisbon township...
Cheese plant that has so many liens on it and the company that is trying to go bankrupt.. The city owns it and got caught apparently illegally charging for sewage disposal that wasnt.. Similar to what happened in Michigan along with the housing scnadal...
They got rid of their politicans we can the mayor in a couple of weeks and Vaugh and Powers are done.. Lets form a group and learn the legal process of recall.
Art out first then we worry about Bill. Art must go.
council can vote out Art on Monday. If we show up again maybe they will hear our voices again.
Last few blogs are great!
Believe me $400,000 is never given to anyone without RULES to Follow! I've done jobs for Fanny & Freddy Feds - money laying around - prime for Art's gang!!!
St. Law Co. Housing is or has conducted a Audit- Toski-Shaefer & Co.of - Rochester They do Accounting/Auditing/Fraud/Tax.
Rules Broken- Art / Justin/CW Augustine/ o'Neil/Jen Ashley/ Stevenson
AHC by the charts can only loan
$ 35,000 in SLC a low cost area -they took $ 40.000.00 per home
Homes must be owner - occupied
and residents must meet income requirements.
A mininum of 40% of the total development cost of the project must be provided by other private and public sources............ plus more on the on line AHOB briefing Sheet
After talking to Home owners-
You need 3 bids to get grant - low bid wins- homeowners have choice of contractor and homeowner pays difference if
choice is more money.
Director took highest bid no choice of homeowner- Reason for this is contractor knew historic restoration. Bull- alumininum storm windows / Doors / They are not Historic.
The windows and door we not what the home owner wanted- nothing was done on the lead paint /sills and jams. Poor and unfinished work! Yet Taxes were raised by full sum?
You can go on and on - o-burg we go hood winked again. Those SoB's
It goes on and on ....
We need to kick but -re group and hit them hard.
Rosie, since the AHC money in question is a grant program to help low-income people buy houses, I think you might be reading off the wrong sheet. Better luck next time in your bizarre, insane ranting against the city.
By the way, are you still sniffing Bill Nelson's jock, or did you flip-flop back in the other direction?
The big "O" corruption started many, many years ago when student population decreased and the school increased double- and triple- and quadruplefold. The city loves raising taxes and spending your money uselessly. All government in the big "O" is scandalous - just like Washington.
Thanks Pal- want to bet.
SNAKES LIKE you tell me IM on the RIGHT TRACK & I don't fall for smoke Screens - Nice try.
SLCHousing Audit ?
YOU will get Caught !
I'm Not ranting about the city - im ranting about the administers of the program!! Nelson- Scorria -Woods -CW augistine -etc. The city and taxpayers are the ones geting screwed.
At the council meeting Mr .Powers said 3 years ago we got caught. He is 100% correct. the same bull is back BACK with misuse of funds !!!
How do I flip - Flop . I,ve only said Nelson is right in firing SCORRIA , which he is ! Find anywhere else were I agree with Nelson, give credit where its due.
By the way next time your checking out Bills jock strap - get some fresh air before you write!
Any young person that dealt with the housing authority can vouch for the fact their money abuse going on.. Handy man for hire gets most of their jobs and charges twice to three times what other get. My fmaily experienced an electrical up grade for in the area of four thousand. a job normally done with profit for twenty eight hundred.. They had a thousand dollars left on the grant so they were told the stairs to the second floor would be redone for the thousand.. One problem was there is no second floor in his house.. This is taxpayers money being abused at theres no lie about it. Wright office then Aubertine and now Ritchies office are ignoring complaints and that also fact.
No wonder the city is run by morons. Look at the people who vote them in/hire them.
It is great to have a blog where Steve Rose can have arguments with himself. For real news, I'll read the Journal thank you very much.
Anoymous people argue with who? and do you think your Anoymous notes carry creditabile! Anoymous people are the ones running the city? SLC Housing seams to have struckin a cord! Must look into more ?
322... Theirs plenty of opinions and chances to tell your own.. Nelson has been critical of the journal telling them everything is out of text and fabricated now hes relying on them for this story.
The City planer shoud have been fired plain and simple.. Sciorra let him resign so be it...
The city manager needs to go next. If he resigns he would be a fool so they will have to fire him. They will be really hard pressed to find cause....Sciorra has all of the precents and past practice on his side.. Why? Nelson.. Regardless what you think Nelson is the reason this is going on bad or good.. Its his only chance to possibly win..
Whatever happened he let happen and was aware of most of it. By not waning Art to do his job in July just gave this time to fester.
This can be summed up this way.. DLriv4e around town and talk to the real people of the city.. If your happy with the way things are by all means vote for Nelson.. If yorr not happy then the need of change will reason and you will vote for McGrath....
To Iam Fedup,
You are right picking at each other will solve nothing. The truth is Art needs to go. That's my job. If you feel Nelson needs to go, that is your job. I personally support him, but realize a lot of people want change. I think I have been lied to by Art, and that caused much of the problems and confusion on many issues.
I know where you come from Mike. I couldnt support Nelson for anything. I have voted for him three other times but nothing ever changes. Secret meetings always against the little guy. Its about time he stood for something besides politics and getting his picture taken.. Ive seen you try and get answers at meetings and have Nelson shut you off . Hes done it to everybody.. Right down to sidewalk shoveling.. Two years ago he made a big plea on tv meeting about the shoveling .. was going to crack down.. The next spring he was asked by Matt Flynn why it wasnt enforced like he said.. He said he couldnt recall saying that.... Ive seen that in him for years.. Whats the difference of that than lying..Anyway you keep up the good work you may have some help coming in the form of McCoy, Hosmer and Amo or Friot.. Steveson and Ashley pretty well out now
Mike Morley
Sam Burns addressed council last meeting and one of his requests was that the city write a letter of support for the raising of the sales tax.. I agree with you I,d rather face a sales tax that out of towners and canadians help me pay rather than a property tax. I no that its a contraversial issue but you came right out and spoke and addressed Nelson about getting something done... Whats his stand on this issue.. Is he going to ride the fence and side with Ritchie... Theres only five counties in the state that still have seven percent.. I didnt here him acknowledge your request.. Did he?? Is it a council vote required??
To M. Dolengy,
I think he supports it. I don't know for sure but should find out this week when i read whether a letter has been sent or not.
A sales tax increase would be great but the governor has not been signing any tax increases.
Council meeting on Tuesday. Important to come cheer and support Art.
Monday night meeting.
Make Nelson keep order and not to grandstand if thats possible Mike. I,ve also done a little checking on Nelson. he is staying in Lisbon so he is residing out of the city. Dont the laws pertain to him also.
He lives on Lafayette St. I know that he stays at his father's farm sometimes, but he lives with his son in the City. Dick Lockwood lived up to camp at the golf course 8 months of the year, but no one complained because he was available every day. Same with Bill.
It will be infinitely more difficult to fire Art Sciorra with cause because of the calls by Nelson and Morley. I appreciate both of them for trying to do the people's business, but they should have reached across the political aisle to build a consensus with Skamperele and Sholette to get rid of Art after the election and the investigation.
I understand that Mike Morley thinks he has seen all he needs to see to guide his opinion, and that is great. He has strong opinions and has no fear of speaking his mind with honesty and integrity, and that is why most in the city love the guy.
I don't understand why Bill Nelson changed his tune on Art, with whom he was almost inseparable until just a couple of months ago, except that he saw the writing on the wall that Jack McGrath was going to wipe the floor with him in the election, and decided to throw Art under the bus to save his hide.
We're seeing right policy for the wrong reasons. That taints the whole process, if we do fire Art, we risk having to pay a lot of money to him because it will at least appear on the surface to be politically motivated.
It undoubtly is politically motivated. Nelson is doing exactly that.. They justdug up some more contraversy in that Oak St property seems to be questionable now.
Law is law.. If the mayor is required to be resident of city and he is living in Lisbon he should be removed from office. I know the law required some city employees to be residents and it caused them alot of inconvenience. Why is the mayor and Nick Vaugh exceptions.
Because Bill Nelson is wrong ,why does that make Art Scorria right. This reasoning seems to going in a circle? No matter what Art Scorria Must Go! Look what he has done to the city. We can't get rid of Scorria only Bill and council can. Doug was a removal vote. The six must vote now no matter what ASAP- put politics aside - Nelson will get his!
I dont think the manager is right by any means. I sorry I came across that way. My point is the mayor is wrong for helping this guy operate this way. Nelson was his biggest ally until he seen he wasnt going to get elected.. Issues in the meantime have come up with Shollettes residnecy and now Vaughs and the mayors are in question.. None of them are above the law.. There should be not vote until the residency issue is openly settled...Those in question should not vote as they negate each other anyway... Morley Cilley Skamp and Powers must decide..Investigate both VAugh and Nelson....In this manner the manager will have no legal recourse to say it was done wrong.
I understand and agree with you!!
Art is the only one who can fire Justin.
Council is the only one who can fire Scorria
Voters are then only one who can fire Nelson
The 3 gone a breath of fresh air!!
I read in this morning paper that Mike Morley and the mayor did not know about Grove Street, it was one more of the city managers coever up. Yet there is a memo from the city attorney to the mayor and council whcih clearly included the issues surrounding Grove Street? Mike did the paper mis quote you or did you forget about Grove Street. I asked this question a couple of days ago and you simply ignored it. Everyone says ask Mike Morley he will answer!!! Could you please answer. Did you and the mayor know about Grove Street?
To Anonymous;
I stated that I did not know about a purchase offer for 2 Grove St. until notified by phone by Art sometime in late May or Early June. I knew it was being rehabbed. I talked about it at least once a month for a year. I remember stating that you could throw a cat through the building because the only part not torn up was the two by four framing and the roof. You could see through the building. t's all on DVD of the meetings. I did not say I knew nothing about 2 Grove. I have nothing to hide. I stayed on top of these as much as I could. Not nearly enough, though. You can and should blame me for some of this. I let them get away with too much because I did not demand answers. I let them give me the standard, "We will get back to you on that." That has ended. We will get answers. We are getting answers. The people who were supposed to buy 2 Grove St. backed out of the deal. You can understand why. I still do not know who they were, and now have no reason to. If I have not answered you suufficiently, let me know what elseyou need .
Mike how would you like to be married to that person. Save your time for more inportant issues. Lets FIRE ART SCORRIA and stop creating problems. Watch the MOVIE the FOCHERS - Mike was not in the circle of trust!
Ive talked to attorney who is familiar with government.
His opinion of this matter is that the entire council may be liable for the actions of Mr. Sciorra and aslo be liable to Mr Sciorra if he can show where ge governed in a way consistant to the council policy..
Thats actually what happened on his last job.. Some of the poliiticans were recalled aome wwere criminally investigated but the town got sued and had to pay over a quarter of million dollars in liability.. The reason was supervision and how much a court would state a governing body should have supervised the manager. In our case , case law shows we are liable even though our charter states other wise.. The governing body must protect the taxpayers... He thnnks Bill Nelson is just as corrupt as Sciorra and should answer for it...
Why didn't Mr. Morley and Mr. Nelson vet Art before he was hired? The guy was fired or forced out as city manager twice before he landed in the Burg for being dishonest and ineffective. What kind of idiots would hire a two-time lying failure?
To Anonymous;
First, why don't you put your name here? it seems kind of cowardly of you. Second, We hired a firm to find candidates for City Manager for us. They, the firm, charged us $50,000 to do the initial interviews. We were given the names of 3 candidates. Those 3 men came here on a weekend in november of 2005. We interviewed each one seperately over the course of two days. One decided he did not like it here. Another had no experience as a City Manager,only as an assistant manager. And the other was Art. There are things you cannot ask on an interview because federal laws do not allow you to. We relied heavily on information supplied us by our hired consultants. If there were problems in Art's past, we should have been told by our hired gun. We weren't. I thought that we had all we needed to know, and so did 6 other people. None of us are professional at interviewing, but the Charter says that job falls to us. We selected Art from a very short list. That's how and why he is here. Now I was curtious enough to answer you, will you answer me?
Who are you?
To anonymous, those people you call idiots consisted of Tom Hannan, Sam Lamacchia, Steve LaRose, Carl Tucci, Kris Ericksen, Bill Nelson, and myself.
Mike... We had an invention called a phone.. People on the sitting council in that town could have been talked to.. Fax machines and the proper requests even some research on the internet gets you some logic to base your decisions on..
I dont think Art Sciorra did a bad job overall he was just allowed to much freedom by the charter and our Mr Nelson interpetation of it.. If Nelson has stood firm and made the manager give answers instead of caving in or as he always did hold a meeting with Vaugh and Powers before hand to assure things went smoothly for him..
I still think this charter gives one person too much power and limits councils )our elected officals power... This is much why Nelson had the growth fund manipulated like he did. Think hard when Flynn objected to not getting anyinfo for it.. Only Nelson couuld...
I know your personal feelings about Nelson but mine is he has failed us. Is interests are not in Ogdensburg for the future and thus we need a change.
Art has several issues - he was a super micro manager - wanted to lead but never wanted to take any blame at all. The man was never wrong and I mean never wrong . Just ask him. No one can tell him anything. If the whole council said resign - he'd think they should!
To Iam Fedup;
We had no reason to think badly of him. As I said, he was vetted by a firm as one of the final four people. One never showed up for an interview. We thought his making it to the short list signified that he was clean. Never having done this, I had no reason to doubt the word of our headhunters. If you were in my position, I am sure you would have done it the same way..Don't forget, what you have access to now on the computer was not available 6 years ago. Maybe you are right though, we should all be held accountable.
Mike Morley
Im not a big fan of consulting firms for everything.. Its seems to be the trend of the day and age however.
Another thing is the resignation letter or seperation agreement. I dont believe in them.. A guy like Sciorra just moves on to his next victim.No one tells the dirt it just sticks the next guy with him.
When you have a weak leader like Nelson it makes you very vunerable and I can understand why, and just hope you all learn so you can show the new people that will be coming on board.
By the way Nelson is spending the majority of his time at his parents house not on Lafayette st. Just remember if you question VAugh do the same to Nelson. I have several people interested in him giving a public answer so they can comment..
Keep up the good work and dont take offense to comments by anomomous bloggers.
Fed-up I know union people that have been hired in the public arena that have been fired or let go in the private sector. For everything like stealing,job preformance harrasment ,etc. With these your fired with a good recommadition pacts that just what happens! It s BS.Just think of the Dirt and rotten things Art and Justin got on each other for them to even consider a pact. They both now the system! Be Glad when they are both gone.
Bottom Line : CHANGE is Needed.
No more excuses from existing council members or the mayor .
They have FAILED repeatedly to be leaders.
They have shirked responsibility and outsourced it to "headhunters " , THEN been naive enough NOT to do their own VETTING. BTW Computers Faxes , phones and other means were available in 2005!!
If only 3 finalists and one pulled out the search could have .should have been expanded until outstanding candidates materialized .
This lack of business acumen and insight clearly DEMONSTRATEs THAT WHILE THEY MAY BE WELL INTENDED and nice people, they have no leadership experience or track record of appropriate professional experience IN RUNNING ANYTHING.
Who would hand over the operation of multi- million dollar business enterprise to neophytes? That's Just NOT smart.
Would you give the management of your investments over to them ?? --if not why hand over the city budget to them to oversee??
Vote November 8 and clean the house out .
Mr. Morley,
I don't want to seem that I am picking on you, it is not my intention, but $50,000 for a committee to hire for the city are you kidding me. I would be embarrassed to admit that, what an incredible waste of taxpayers money. Another example of wasteful government spending. This is just one more reason to vote for Jack McGrath, as a director for Johnson & Johnson for 25 years I imagine he has interviewed a few high level candidates over the years and certainly would no enough to check their references. Sorry but this is ludicrous. Please stop spening our hard earns money so irresponsibly...put people in these seats that know what the he'll they are doing.
TO Anonymous,
You are complaining about something that happened 6 years ago. Well advertised at that. Why didn't you complain then? If you think Jack as Mayor and Skamp as Deputy is what you want, go for it. I can tell you that the information available on-line now greatly surpasses what was available 6 years ago. If you are anyway computer literate,you would know this. I also said that I relied on professionals to dothings I did not know how to do. That may seem stupid to you, buthow else would you expect us to do it? I don't and won't judge you because I don't know you. What I do know is that you still refuse to state your name. Pretty easy to throw stones when you can never be the target. Grow a set.
Your right but mostly Jack CAres. He would be leading the way not sitting back like Nelson and waiting for a consulting firm to rape the city.. Your also right that with only a list of three only a moron would accept that..Nelson like what he got.. Sciorra pampered Nelson and made him look good at every turn since bieng hired here.. Make no mistake folks, if Nelson felt he might win this election Sciorra wold still be Sitting pretty.
The entire idea behind Sciorra firing is to make Nelson look like a mayor for elections and only that..
Would not be suprised if this was all arts idea and in the end Nelson gets re=elected then cant find cause to fire Art..
We need to have Sciorra gone at any price and to vote for another mayor on November.. Both are win win
OK Since Jack Cares how come he knows ! That....
That going door to door people want Scorria Out!
Going to meetings he knows the people want Scorria Out!
Listened to Woods testimony and should have an opinion!
Heard Oaks and Wades Comments should he take that in the balance!
Can Jack get on the net and form an opinion on what Art past was like! Any moron can Right!
If he wants to be Mayor..has he no knowledge of the Housing/ Grant
problem with Scorria!
WHAT IS HIS OPINION ? NOT JUST THE SAME HIDE BEHIDE A REPORT!
SO IT IS MAYOR JACK & DEPUTY SKAMP!
If Jack cares why is he sitting on his JOHNSON & JOHNSON and not replying on any Scorria ISSUES
Nelson Hid and now tells the truth -Jack hide now and will he tell the truth!
Let me preface my response to your last post by saying I think it is commendable that any one citizen choses to represent his community...thank you for your service...that said, I choose not to disclose my identity because I am not a public servant...I think my remarks are indicative of what a lot of residents think. I am very computer literate and I am also a business owner. I would never hire anyone without checking their references...PERIOD. You do not need to be computer literate to post an opening for a city manager...The money we spend on surveys and planning and outside agencys telling us what to think is criminal, if we don't know how to even conduct something as basic as hiring and checking references we should probably look for someone a little more experienced in the business world To take over for you.
Also seems that Mike Morley just gave a low blow and tried to tie Jack McGrath to Skamp.. Thats Bill Nelson and his supporters trying to dirty Jack up..
Bill and Art were inseperable for years and none of us forgot us.. Woods just resigned because he was going to be fired for insubordination but Nelson had him back to recieve some applaus from and audience that wasnt kept in line and very opinionated..
I know Nelson through his exwife or son just posted the 1122 blog.. The previous one was just initiated by Mike Morley who until know remained open and friendly.
I guess the pressure of sitting with a real businessman must bother him to...
To anonymous,
You have options. You control each vote you cast. If you don't like me vote for someone else. You can also have a recall vote. A petition to recall takes 10% of registered voters signatures. If a lot of residents think I am wrong,like you say, you should have no trouble getting them to sign.
That said, if you are so computer literate, you know that the search engines and information available is vastly different today than six years ago. As I said, I was a neophyte in the hiring business, but by Charter, was one of seven responsible for the job. Our recruiter had a hard time finding people who were interested in moving to this community. So we were stuck with 3 people showing up, and one of those backed out on the first day of interviews. One had no experience. That left Art. Who would you choose when you were down to one candidate? Don't forget,the Charter sets requirements for the job. Degree in governmental Administration. Can't just give the job to anyone. And again, it is easy to throw stones when you can hide. If you are so interested in good government, why don't you run in two years, or do you just like to criticize from the balcony?
To M. Dolengy;
Do you know how I met Jack Mcgrath? Skamp brought him to my door. That's right, they were going door to door together. I sat on the porch and talked to both of them. If you don't believe me ask either of them.
OK i'll chime in here:
When there was only one candidate the council SHOULD have :
1. Fired the Consulting firm
2 Begun an INTERNAL search committee process
3. Re-advertised the position using the outcome from #4 below
4. Re- consider the "imagined blockages" as to why any candidate DID NOT EMERGE . Then re-think and retool the job specifications/rewards so as to ATTRACT more suitable candidates
5. There are experienced business people and several departments in complex organizations with EXPERIENCED Human Resources Managers in this region that could have also been included on ANY search committee to help
6. UNDER NO circumstance should you EVER hire under the guise "Well that's ALL we've got " .
7. You had a decent "interim mgr" at the time who could have continued in that role until you completed a sucessful process--
JUST SAYING !!!
Moreover search processes have been around for years , literally decades , as have search engines and data bases to assist in the process.
Sorry Mr Morley i cannot agree with you . You may have meant well but the outcome speaks for itself.
Trustees/ Boards/ Councils need to have the KNOW How and connections necessary to get things done !
To Anonymous,
That's pretty good incite six years too late. Are you going to call Ron Washington and tell him how he can win last night's game, too? Your opinions are noted,but have no bearing on the present. Worrying about what we did wrong 6 years ago cannot fix what is going on today. I am trying to correct what I did wrong by unhiring the guy. Give me a break.
You say give a compensation package to draw people. We offered between $90,000 and $100,000 to start, and still could not draw candidates. And we were hammered for agreeing to pay someone $95000 to start. You say pay more. Well you are the only one. I don't know who you are, and really don't care, but you are not realistic in your expectations of us. We are not career politicians. Most of us just want to make government responsible to the citizens, and we do our best to do that. It is people like you, who hide and criticize, that make the good ones stop being public servants.
Calm Down Mr Morley, Politicians are supposed to have thick skin .
I like you , i really do and THINK you ARE trying .
My comments were in response to what you can do to insure you don't get caught again in this same situation, as you undoubtedly will be involved in a search process soon.
So In your view it is realistic to hire someone who 5 yrs later has everyone riled up and "May result" in a buyout clause .
H'mm common sense ( admittedly a rare phenominon) Might have been better to pay an xtra $$ and get better results on the front end .
So you MAY be spending another 50 K plus Benefits could add another 15 K or so of TAXPAYERS $$ to fire this mgR
H'mm seems it might have been more cost -effective to put a MINOR fraction of that on the table when searching .
Anyone who does see that - well there's NOT MUCH hope is there ??
At any rate "this isn't personal" as Donald Trump likes to say , "it's Business"
BTW ; i do give you lots of credit for hanging in there and on this blog too . The other councilors apparently either lurk or avoid this site ,
Have a good day
Your right it seems ridiculous to discuss the past, but like I explain to my children that we take History in school so we can learn from our mistakes and not repeat them. That said I would like to ask you Mr. Morley what your plans are in regard to allowing Mr. Silver to share the results of his investigation. Will it be on the agenda for monday's council meeting. Will we the public get to hear the results firsthand or will it be censored. Will we vote Monday to fire Mr. Scorria if we find grounds in the investigation. What if he he absolved of any misconduct? Your investigation aside will you take the recommendation of the city attorney?
I want the results to be publicly discussed. I cannot say there will be a resolution to fire Art on the agenda, but also I cannot say that there will not be a resolution for that purpose introduced. I can and will tell you that the City Atty. will not have a reccommendation either way. He will have a list of facts, a time line, of what happened and by who. Hopefully. We will question him publicly if the rest of Council agrees. After that, we will probably go into executive session to discuss what we will do. And then come out and do it. Or not. Who knows?
Do the Right Thing ,Be Fair , Be Firm , Be Straightforward
----Good luck and hopefully everyone including "US" checks their emotions and their politics at the door
What is the purpose of going into executive session? The reason that the city is so up in arms about this entire issue is all of the finger pointing, the he said she said, dealing with it behind closed doors will just incite the crowd. My question to you is, what will your position be if the evidence shows that Art did nothing wrong?
Wow the person trying to protect McGraph and using a crystal ball is actually hurting him - your logic is not all there. So i'm Now going to be dealing with Mayor Jack McGraph - Deputy Mayor Skamp and Art Scorria. That said by anonynous one I'll stick with what we got . Nelson !!! Thanks for thr flip back to relity!!
I think our city leaders and candidates lower themselves by participating in this discussion. Clearly there aren't many rational people on this blog from either side.
I took my position after reading roughly 25 e-mails. I did not do it lightly. I was and am sure of my position. I do not do things to get my name in the news. I do not go to events to get my picture taken. I take my responsibility seriously. I will back up what I say with documented proof. Other than that, I cannot be more specific at this time.
P.S. We need an executive session to discuss what we will do. It is a personel matter, and the personel have every right to privacy that the law allows. We will come out and discuss our findings or decisions during the meeting.
You're absolutely wrong 2:29 Sticking with Nelson maintains the Status Quo and LOOK where that got us !!
No thinking voters will not ratify the past mistakes and failures to lead but look for new leadership without the same old political baggage and spin cycle
Can a public body close a public meeting for "personnel matters"?
Citing "personnel matters" is not a sufficient ground for going into an executive session. The motion to go into executive session should be more specific.
No need to tell secrets in private...just fire the guy and work from there.
Mr Morley Give it up! Do not give these people an audience! You were Elected By Us A MAJORITY OF VOTERS. THERE INTENT IS TO SWAY OPINION IN THERE FAVOR - TO A PERSON NOT ELECTED. If they want to run for office let them - but as you said they need a name! Mike has been proven at the voters booth and that is all he needs, I will vote for Mike over Jack/ Scamper/ or any person they throw at you! What you got MIKE is EARNED TRUST not Politics! in saying....let the person rant... their only hurting McGraph and his mates! This person does not have a majority and CAN NOT ADJUST TO OTHER PERSONS OPINIONS. ITs JUST LIKE TALKING TO ART SCORRIA. Give it up Mike your a good public servant!
Many here can think for ourselves and pay little heed to uneducated rants .
We DO NOT NEED others to analyze what has happened we are quite capable to function on our own ,
If one is happy with what is going on - vote accordingly if however one expects more of their leaders well the action required is obvious.
I am not advocating for any person , but over the years have been dis-satisfied withthe lack of meaningful progress on economic development , tax imbalances relative to only property tax base, crime and neighborhood deterioration, sex offenders and this current debacle is just ANOTHER in a long series of leadership failures .
So we can all agree to either Disagree or not but in the privacy of the voting booth will determine if we improve Ogdensburg or stay the same -- You're call !
Mike Morley.
I think a lot like you but just a while ago you said you made your deison after reading just 25 Emails.. For Mr. Silver to take a month and a half is absurb.. He must be braindead orrrrrr possibly he reviewed all of the evidence. Perhaps he will base his findings ion all of the evidence and testimony.. Perhaps his finding will say what I think.. Manger to be fired and help you find cause. But because Bill Nelson looked up a few Emails also made a decision then told you where to look and what to look for dosnt cut it..
Mike Morley
You had the chance two years ago to ditch Vaugh becase of missing ttoo many consecutive meetings without excused absence.. The result of Flynns complaint went to executive session.... What happened who defended him.. when if fact he was gone campaigning for Doheny in his first attempt for congress.. who got him off the hook.>>>
These blogs are a really great for for discussing the issues that we face together as a community but they also seem to be a format for swaying public opinion. Mr. Morley I have asked you seval questions over the past week that you have answered for the most part directly. I have also seen Mr McGrath campaigning with Mayor Lockwood, I don't think that means he will be asking him to be his deputy mayor. I personally think that you make a great deputy mayor and are very well respected in our community. I for one hope that if he is elected that Mr. McGrath will ask you to continue as Deputy Mayor, I think it would be a good fit. You seem to have the pulse of the people and he brings a business sense to the table that this city Desperately needs. I would hope that you as a representative of the people would back him and help to make the changes we all need. Please don't be the voice of your party....be the voice of your constituents.
Look Lets Give Mr Morley a break here . Lord knows i've critisized some of his actions as a councilman and have been airing strong points of view , BUT he has been THERE and does attempt to get anwers when others at the council table defer or dodge .
Is he perfect ? Like most of us NO WAY -- but i will give him points for listening and being here trying his utter best to shed some light on a situation .
Do i still want change -- you bet BUT i have no issue if when he runs again his constituency supports him
i think we need to COME TOGETHER, quit playing politics and see IF we can get this Tired Old Burg Going again ,
Call me nuts , call me an optimist but I THINK WE CAN if we set our differences aside and start working WITH each other .
I'm done now -- lets see what happens
I love it that this might be the only city on the planet that wants to save a prison and a facility to sex offenders because its leaders lack the creativity to foster economic development through other means.
I want to thank the last few people for there comments on this blog! Mike Morley has always represented the people in the City of Ogdensburg. What Mikes Got is COMMON SENSE. No other person has that here. He was for me when I called him and I am for him now. Thank You Mike.
Mike Morley
I thought the manager was intitled to a public hearing.. If thats right it seems it has to be advertised ahead of time.
In every court in this land a defendant has the right to face his accusers.
Nelson wont want executive session he wamts this to be public. Great Job Blil you did the best thing for the Burg.. I wish you had done something for the other three years since we reelected you.. However good luck in the future and I hope you still attend some meetings
5:46 -- I agree wholeheartedly -- these two moves created a tremendous disadvantage for Ogdensburg. WE are the dumping ground for NYS
5:46 -- I agree wholeheartedly -- these two moves created a tremendous disadvantage for Ogdensburg. WE are the dumping ground for NYS. None of our best and brightest want to work in that environment --SO THEY LEAVE
Mike you are the only city councilman to come on and try to explain things. Thank You. This I guess is not part of your job. If it was part of your job I'd quit. You have let a lot of people vent.Thank You for your service to Ogdensburg.
Ogdensburg is kind of like that old TV ad . Give it to Mikey he will eat anything. The State likes to dump things here. Where no political people want to visit except for fund raisers.
Whats real comical is the fact almost all canidates have had soemthing to say on this blog.
Mike Morley has actively been giving his opinion to nameless people.. Nick Vaugh didnt reply.. Storm Cilley no reply.. Michael Powers no reply yet when his prison and his job was threatened he was on the Watertown mayors site daily. Skamp hasnt replied and Nelson wont reply.. Why>> This spring he sent the mayor of Watertown several pictures of himslef thumbing his nose at the taxpayers from Aurba.. He believed in blogs then... He went the Alex BAy to help Doheny raise money for Patty and had his picture taken many times and posted on the mayors blog... Why he obviously dont believe in them unless they are self serving...
For those interested, the attorney's report will not be ready for Council until some time next week.
is he being paid by the hour to stall on Mr. Scorra's behalf?
Scorria knows how to play politics and weasel out of tight spots better than anyone...his past. Knowing he is fired...He is going to get Nelson by hook or by crook... wants a fresh start and a non-commiting Mayor to deal with. Then he counts the votes -only needs 4 and we still got him as manager!
Lucky Ogdensburg! Taxpayers lose again. Hope to see a large crowd at Mondays meeting!
People wake up. This is a perfect example who is running the city. The city council is running scared. The mayor has no power. Mike Morley has no backing. Good Luck Ogdensburg. Art Sciorra will only leave when he is ready. If Mayor Nelson can not fire the city manager before the election, J. McGrath will be our new Mayor.
Council does have a power of two Skamperle-Vaugn with Scorria & Silver . keeping the documents hidden from voters -thats the issue - To hell with the Taxpayers ! The four above should he congradulated! Silver and Scorria should be happy that they get to spend more time looking at contracts and doucments that are full of nothing but their names.Only in Ogdensburg does the accused become the accuser!
CITIZENS OF OGDENSBURG Please come to the next council meeting on 10/24/11 at 7pm. Stand up and be counted. Lets run this idiot Sciorra out of town. If we stand together we can defeat this man who is destroying our city. It is not to late to act.
Wonder whats going on in most voters heads that went to the meeting."Friday for sure Silver says: The Report will be out!" Citizens want Scorria Gone. Wonder what was going thru McGraph's and Skamperle's minds last night at the Remington. Wine and Snacks make good allies! Does McGraph want him to stay! Three elected officals then decide of Scorria going or staying. Think before you vote. If everyone would work for the taxpayer and not Art Scorria. Then ANSWER TO US it would be nice! VOTE CAREFULLY...You Know Scorrias Allies.
I wonder where the assumption that certain people are the city manager's allies came from. It doesn't match the rhetoric, that's for sure.
413 Come on now.. Think common sense... Its Nelsons people. Skamperle made an unpopular decision we all make them at times. Nelson wants to tie Skamp to McGrath and hope the hate the manager idea can stay hot..My forgettin the real issues and only concentrating on only this we have given a free ride to the canidates especially Nelson... Nelson has done nothing for five or six years. Now he makes one isolated decision based on his political career and there are those that love him..... So be it..
why wouldn't hate the manager idea stay hot? firing the manager is important to survive as a city.
For everything I have heard about McGrath, he is not tying himself to anyone ....he has said several times that he is running as an independent and will not get caught up in the politics. When the democratic party endorsed him he answered there endorsement in the journal by saying thank you very much but understand that I am an independent and I will not be influenced by politics. I like that he is approaching this from a business perspective which is why this Republican will be voting for Jack McGrath...I think he brings a fresh perspective to the table and has no agenda other than trying to help us find our way out of the free fall the city has been experiencing for years.
Art Scorria has two Great Supporters No matter what (ALLIES)
Dan Skamperle - Nick Vaugn !!!
*
Two past Supporters
William Nelson - Mike Powers
*
Tolerates him
Storm Cilly
*
Throw him off the bridge
Mike Morley - Doug Sholette
Remenber when we had a City Attorney - Now only the manager has one at his request for his use! His Legal Advisor! So when Art and Andy decide to go ahead with this investagation and things are right with them .The council will continue to examine Art and Andys findins of what they did together! THIS IS UNREAL! ARE DRUGS LEGALIZED IN NEW YORK SO I CAN SWALLOW THIS DUMD ASS IDEA!!
5:31
If that is true he should support firing the manager. He must remember the cheese plant and the promised development at Diamond. He must see how badly Mr. Scorra has managed this current situation turning it into a big black eye. Not to mention about 13 other things.
Seems like it is politics and he just doesnt want to agree with the mayor on anything, looks like we may be stuck with Mr. Scorra and his secret government for four more years unless we can get him out before Mr. McGrath is elected.
I think Scorria has to go no matter what happens the sooner the better, I just don't believe it should be a platform for Nelsons campaign. He has been his biggest supporter for years...he has protected him. The only reason he is taking the position he is now is that he is running scared. If McGrath had not entered the election he would be thumbing his nose at all of us, but now he has competition getting in the way of his political agenda so bye bye Art. it changes nothing let Nelson fire him, let McGrath fire him, either way he has to go, no matter what the investigation shows the he has lost the confidence of everyone. Nelson is just using this situation to salvage votes!!! I'm not buying it, he should have fired him long before this, better yet he should have checked his references before we hired him..Nelson must have missed that class Business 101.
The Pot Heads Right !!
Three guys get a degree in Business Management,Planning Communities and Law!
The Three get a wad of money sell houses illegally, have secret pacts, transfer all sorts of cash there way,make up rules ,write contracts and legal documents to suit themselves!
We appoint SEVEN wise men to look over them so they will play nice.
We find out they are not doing thing right and have gone a"stray.
We sit back and let the Three tell us that their fate will be and in their own sweet time.
Besides we gave you one of us so your thirst should be satisified.
Signed the TWO Surivors.
Citizens of OGDENSBURG are Dumb !
As a matter of fact based on Mr. McGraths resume...do we even need a city manager...Nelson was a part time Mayor...Jack McGrath is a retired businessman with the credentials to do the City Managers job so at the vey least he will know what the new city manager should be doing. Also, I am pretty sure that in 25 years at Johnson and Johnson he learned how to write a job description, post the position in an attractive format in areas throughout the country to attract a large number of qualified candidates, interview the candidate, check their references and finally report back to his board of directors so that together they can make an informed responsible decision on behalf of their stockholders, or more popularly known as the taxpayers.
Only concern about Jack is that he won't fire Art. Why hasn't he said he will? He says he needs to see the report and be independent, but the Burg is the laughing stock of the North Country right now because of Art. So what does Jack need to see?
I haven't seen anything that says he won't. I only know what I would do, as a business owner. I have had employees that i knew had to be fired because they were a bad apple and they had go away. I would not make a huge public issue of it potentially setting myself up to be sued. I would look at the facts to find grounds for termination and if I could not find grounds I would not renew their contract. Either way you get rid of the bad apple and protect your ass, I believe Mr. Scorrias contract is up in two months. If we fire him without cause he gets six months severance. I think Jack McGraths comments that we wanted to see all the facts are indicative of a business professional.
I haven't seen anything that said he will fire Scorria - he wants to see a report Scorria and Silver prepares. Since you are in his camp coment on that or have him coment? (you both hide)As a Business owner BLahBlah same old things you type over and over !! Will he satifify the public opinion or not! And if you don't know the public opinion your fired before you start.Then if elected in 2 months will he be fired! THATS THE PUBLIC OPINION.. SO NOW MORE DANCE? CAUSE ALL YOU NEED IS A FIDDLER!!
I think I have said repeatedly....I would fire Scorria regardless of the outcome of the investigation....I would just do it responsibly...can't speak for anyone but myself. I think the entire city is very aware of public opinion...enough said!
Exactly right, it would send a strong message if both candidates say Art is done. People are watching Ogdensburg!!!
Enough said anoymous means Nothing! Vote for Anoymous! The candidate has to publicly SAY!!!For my vote!
SMH. So just because you don't support a rushed, trumped-up attempt to jettison Uncle Art for political reasons, you automatically support and ally with him?
You guys are totally retarded. I hope to god you don't vote.
Sorry but I have to hear Sciorra side of the story.
Nelson has repeatily preached that the manager manages the city and the council only gives him direction...
How do we know what that direction is?? Council dosnt even know what their sale procedures are and Obviously there is no rent procedures. Nelson had control of the Growth fund for years and they sunk a bunch of money into the old post office... They tried to rent to the county and weere turned down. They did charge rent to the DMV at city hall... They will charge rent to Patty Ritchies office in City hall so someone again is lying about not having a rent policy.
Nelson watned Ritchies office in city hall for his campaign and her help. couple of hundred a month but only after the taxpayers put up about forty thousand to renovate the office. She then hires family to run it.. Talk about our tax money.... Anyway I dont think Art amdwoods are the coru0pt ones in this city. I think Nelson obviously is knee deep in this sess pool of fraud.
My thought is Woods gone, Art must go and Nelson needs to be retired and put on the shelf ....
Fire Scorria - Now
I wonder if citizens are smart enough to NOW go to meetings until this is over? NO
We either fill City hall for the next 6 meetings or don't complain it is our fault.
Gab all you want.... we have to take charge!!!!
FIRE SCORRIA..........ASAP
McGrath will vote to fire Sciorra if its warranted. Just because Morley and Nelson say so dosnt make it so... Nelson is an ambitious politican and anybody that threatens his position is in jeopardy.
Nelson and his followers such as Fred Bean and Ashley and Powers have tied the hands of the city taxpayers for much too long.. City taxes go up automaticly every year. Look at the school taxes and now raises for people making twice to three times what ordinalry Ogdensburg residents make... Come on..
Nelsons complete backing of Art Sciorra sinece he come here created this debacle and now hes trying to escape the responsibility.
You know, with the exception of Mr. Morley, no one here screaming 'FIRE SCIORRA' has given just cause to let the guy go. What proof do any of you have that he lied besides what you've been told by politicians and the newspaper?
I am shocked that you aren't more intellectually curious and that you don't think these things out before screaming out a knee-jerk reaction on the internet and in city council meetings.
Art thank you for you comment! or Skamp or Nick! We the Voters - Taxpayers - Homeowners - Business Owners - got your number - Resign!
1011 anon
1) Cheese plant
2) Promised development at Diamond site after speaking with fake developer in 2008.
3) Current situation: should have just fired Woods instead of dragging it out, making it public, and blaming everyone on staff instead of taking one ounce of responsibility.
4) Losing population and tax base faster than everywhere else in county.
5) "200 jobs." Oh, I meant, 200 jobs if it actually happens. I was only quoting the guy.
Woods came and spoke and mentioned times and names and dates. Art had no info, just said he's lying, I knew nothing. It was Wears. It was Phil Cosmo. A good manager will keep dirty laundry out of the public eye and take responsibility if it becomes public.
1122.. Would you have done differently if Nelson approched you and asked him not to make it public until after the filing date for the opposing party in an important election for him..
After his approach Nelson hit the public relations walk gathering votes. At that time he found out how unpopular Sciorra Woods and himself was.... Only then did Nelson come to our side and want Sciorra fired..
I think the way they as a council agreed upon(atty Silvers_ should have been followed but if he had reason to want Art Fired I believe he did the right thing. But as usuall Bill Nelson twists things.. He made his statement and agqain at the meeting he made a strong statemnt about Sciorra but guess what...He didnt give us any specific reasons did he... Wonder why?? He read a few Emails and he told Morley what Emails to look for and read... Only the tip o fthe iceberg... Guress I just cant get by that..
In the history of Ogdensburg we have had many honest hard working mayors but this one has got to be one of the worse in terms of open government and honesty. I think we are being fooled again....
To Anonymous 12:34;
You assume a lot without any facts. No one told me what to look for. I just read the top 3 on the pile. Ask the Journal reporter. He was beside me at the time. I read e-mails he was copying. I didn't even get to the confidential ones, didn't need to. When I see signatures I come to believe that person is aware of the situation. If not, why did he sign? As I said, the paper has the e-mails ,too.
This person in the Mcgraph camp is a perfect person in a perfect world. Is this what were to expect arrogrance? No facts! You got twisted views ? No proff IF this -If that- Maybe this - could of that- would of should of. Is this what were geting in McCraph and Skamperle or is this Skamp! Holy Crap! I am voting for Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck - "That's all Folks"
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